NEC revisions. Why...?

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I see that the latest NEC revisions prescribe that AFCI breakers are to be used not merely for bedroom circuits but for just about every living space -- OK, I guess.
But I see that it is now a violation to have a duplex outlet on a GFCI-protected circuit for a single prescribed appliance, e.g., refrigerator, sump pump; why on earth...? (Someone suggested -- humorously, I guess -- that it was to sell more outlets and to make more [paid] work for electricians, who would then have to install additional circuits and outlets.)
Perce
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On 01/23/2015 09:27 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

My guess is that a "false trip" for a critical item such as a refrigerator or sump-pump would be deemed to be worse than the very small risk of shock hazard.
Elsewhere however, not a bad safety precaution.
They should also put a label on them:
Not to be used under water.
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On 01/23/2015 10:40 AM, philo wrote:

But it doesn't say (at least not according to the summary I was reading) that it is a violation to have *additional* outlets on one of those GFCI-protected circuits.
I know that existing installations do not have to be brought into compliance with the new NEC at every change, but out of curiosity: both our sump pump itself *and* the charger for the battery-powered backup sump pump are plugged into a GFCI-protected duplex outlet; would that be considered a violation of the new rule?
Perce
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On 01/23/2015 9:57 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

...

...

...
I haven't actually seen the new wording but if have additional outlets on the circuit then it wouldn't be a dedicated circuit as prescribed...
That seems excessive and wouldn't say that's it w/o actually seeing the revised Code...
--


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On 01/23/2015 11:31 AM, dpb wrote:

But does it have to be a *dedicated* circuit? Only one appliance per GFCI breaker? IF (big "if", as I haven't seen the Code itself, and IAC I am not one of the priesthood authorized to interpret it) it merely says that a refrigerator has to be on a GFCI-protected circuit, can the kitchen refrigerator, the bar refrigerator, and the freezer in the garage all be on that same GFCI-protected circuit?
Perce
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On 1/23/2015 3:21 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

That does not sound like a smart combination. I hope you just used that as an example. Garage circuits are on a GFCI anyway. Refrigerators and freezers should be as isolated as possible from a practical point, but if I had them on a circuit easily tripped, I'd want a night lite or something that would let me know the circuit is out.
I cannot imagine having to pull out a fridge to reset the GFCI tripped by some other source such as a power surge.
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On 01/23/2015 06:13 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Why "pull out" a fridge? I'm talking about a common circuit protected by a GFCI *breaker*, not a GFCI outlet *behind* the freezer or fridge.
Are you suggested that every refrigerator and freezer should be on its own circuit?
Perce
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I looked into this years ago and believe they are supposed to be on a dedicated circuit
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On 1/23/2015 9:33 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

It is in my house and yes, it is located behind the fridge. My house is 34 years old so it is not GFCI.
My second fridge and freezer do not have individual circuits, but both are not on the same one so little chance they would start at the same time and cause an overload. They do take small loads running these days though, just that startup may be more.
It can be protected by a GFCI that is upstream, but I don't think it is good practice to have it on the same circuit as an electric fry pan, toaster, and coffee maker. *ersonally, I don't see the need to have a GFCI on a refrigerator but there may be some statistics that show otherwise. I wonder how many service techs get clled out and all that is needed is a reset.
I have a receptacle on the deck that of course is downstream from a GFCI. It is located in the bathroom downstairs though.
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ahh take a power failure situation that lasts for awhile. in this case both fridges will likely turn on at the same time, breaker trips and if no one is home you could lose both fridges food
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*As far as I know it is not a code violation to have a dedicated GFI circu it for an appliance. Doesn't matter if the outlet is single or duplex. If it is a 20 amp circuit and there will only be one single receptacle, then t hat single receptacle must be rated for 20 amps. Do you have a code referen ce article number for what you read?
There are no longer any exceptions for GFI protection. I responded in anot her newsgroup about the ceiling outlet in a garage that normally powers the garage door opener. That is required to have GFI protection as well as th e other outlets in the garage. If the refrigerator is within six feet of t he kitchen sink it must have GFI protection. Any outlets in the unfinished part of a basement must have GFI protection.
John Grabowski http://www.MrElectrician.TV
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On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 11:21:30 AM UTC-5, John G wrote:



e


cuit for an appliance. Doesn't matter if the outlet is single or duplex. I f it is a 20 amp circuit and there will only be one single receptacle, then that single receptacle must be rated for 20 amps. Do you have a code refer ence article number for what you read?

other newsgroup about the ceiling outlet in a garage that normally powers t he garage door opener. That is required to have GFI protection as well as the other outlets in the garage. If the refrigerator is within six feet of the kitchen sink it must have GFI protection. Any outlets in the unfinish ed part of a basement must have GFI protection.

Maybe Perce can provide a link to what he's reading about this new code?
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On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 10:21:30 AM UTC-6, John G wrote:
If the refrigerator is within six feet of the kitchen sink it must have GFI protection.
...and what if a refrigerator is more than 6 feet but has an icemaker plumbed?
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On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 11:48:07 AM UTC-5, bob_villa wrote:

GFI protection.

mbed?
*An icemaker is not a consideration for the 6' rule. Over six feet it is u sually not possible for a human to touch the refigerator and the sink at th e same time. This is why dishwashers are now required to be GFI protected. You can easily touch a dishwasher and the sink at the same time in many c ases.
The electronic components that control appliances can break down over time and leak small amounts of current that won't trip a regular circuit breaker .
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 10:27:57 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"

You need to cite that. I am not sure which rule you might be talking about.
The only one of those I have seen as being interpreted that way is the 15a receptacle behind a refrigerator in the kitchen and that is because it is *not* required to be GFCI and not a 20a like the rest of the circuits in a kitchen. Some jurisdictions say if it is only for the fridge, it should be a single receptacle with no other outlets. The flaw in that logic is you can have more than one piece of "refrigeration equipment". (maybe a wine cooler next to the fridge or a fridge and a freezer) If it is not in the kitchen the fridge can be on any circuit available. If it is a place requiring GFCI, it needs to be a GFCI. Back when there were exceptions for things that did not need to be on a GFCI in those areas, some inspectors wanted a single but the exceptions are pretty much gone now.
As for AFCI, that has been expanded beyond the bedrooms for 15 years.
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On 01/23/2015 11:41 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I was not reading the code itself: I was reading a _Codes for Homeowners_ (or some such title) book that I picked up and skimmed while I waited for assistance at one of the local Home Improvement stores. No "chapter and verse" were cited.

Kitchen circuits have to be 20A? And with 20A outlets, or still with only 15A outlets but with wiring and breakers for 20A?
> Some jurisdictions say if it is only for

The book only claimed to include the latest revisions, not to be listing only the latest revisions; I did not word my first paragraph carefully enough. Our house was built before there were such things as AFCI breakers (as far as I know), but I did substitute an AFCI breaker for the original on the bedroom circuits a while back.
Perce
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 08:21:26 -0800 (PST), John G
Huh? My copy of 210.8(A)(1) says "Sinks located in areas other than kitchens where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink."
What you say is true in the laundry or adjacent to a wet bar sink, but not the refrigeration outlet in the kitchen. That is the reason why *some* AHJs want it to be a single.
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*In NEC 2014 article 210.8(A)(7) "Sinks___Where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6') of the outside edge of the sink." Also required under 210.8(B)(5)
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 12:25:37 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"

Those books are notoriously inaccurate and usually do not even cite which code cycle they are talking about

As long as you have more than one receptacle on the circuit, it is legal to use 15a receptacles on a 20. A duplex is two for the purposes of this rule. All kitchen receptacles except the one for the refrigeration equipment have to be on 20a "small appliance" circuits that can only serve the "kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area". (minimum of 2)

AFCIs originally showed up in the 99 code with deferred implementation until 2002 (mostly because when they went to print the AFCI was not available). Originally it was just bedrooms. By 2008 it was expanded to "family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas" and they started recognizing the newer versions of the AFCI that actually do what was promised in 1999. Too bad if you paid a lot of money for the earlier, ineffective ones at the point of a government gun. ;-)
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On 01/23/2015 01:04 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

So the NEC is gradually moving toward separate "power" and "lighting" circuits -- which the UK and Australia had eons ago?

It might have been about 2005/6 that I installed the AFCI breaker: it's a CH breaker with a yellow-slider test switch. Any good?
Perce
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