Has anybody actually been at a fire scene where 20-liter NATO gas cans were involved in the fire?
No theories.... actual observed behavior.
I'm thinking that they might behave significantly differently from the standard plastic containers.
I just bought some of them for generator gasoline storage and am wondering what happens if/when some retard sets fire to the garden shed where they live.
Testing demo, fire test happens near the end of the vid
Per Idlehands:
That was informative. Thanks!
My guess would be that plastic containers would either melt or spray gasoline through he filler neck quite soon after being exposed to fire.
But the video begs the question of what happens with NATO cans when they're left to cook and finally (assuming they must eventually...) fail when filled with gasoline.
I'm wondering whether they tend to explode or just spray gasoline from whatever cracks/leaks develop. Seems like that would be relevant information for a fire fighter.
To explode there has to be a combustible mix of air with gasoline vapor. Inside the can there won't be.
Harry K
I'm not sure what a NATO gas can is, but I have always felt safer using the older metal cans rather than plastic ones. But all they sell now are plastic.
However my reason to reply was more based on the comment ["To explode there has to be a combustible mix of air with gasoline vapor."]
I dont necessarily agree. Although I never had a can of gasoline explode. But I have seen numerous aerosol spray paint cans explode after they are tossed into a fire. This is because I had a neighbor kid who thought it was fun to toss them into the fire when his father burned garbage outdoors. The empty cans exploded and usually ruptured, either blowing out the bottonm of the can, but sometimes the top. If that was not bad enough, one day he threw some FULL cans of paint in the fire, and that was almost like a bomb going off. That's when his father nearly killed the kid about the same time the police arrived.
Thus, a closed container filled with a flammable liquid, WILL explode when it gets hot enough. Any container will have at least a little air in it, but the paint cans that were full exploded much more than those what were nearly empty (which means less paint, more air).
Right- and that's called a BLEVE - Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion. It can happen with any fully closed container that doesn't melt first. It often makes the news when it happens with rail car or tank farm fires. I would think all firefighters are aware of it as it's almost always catastrophic if they are anywhere near it when it happens.
Per snipped-for-privacy@spamblocked.com:
Per Gil:
Now we're getting somewhere.....
There will not be more air in the nearly empty cans. Air can not get into the can after it is filled at the factory.
There is less paint and less gas to put pressure on the paint. The full cans explode more violently because the paint formes a vapor cloud when it bursts and it may be more full of gas which may be flamable. The more stuff to burn, the bigger the explosion.
I had a full 5 gal can of gas overflow when I was filling it from a barrel, Caught fire but only burned from the spout and it was sitting in a pool o f fire. Of course there, there would have been no airspace so...
As for those burning cans, the gas itself can expand enough to burst cans. I used to toss them in the burn barrel back when they were still legal. I quit the day I tossed on in and went on about my grass mowing. Heard the " BANG!". Next round with the mower I found the end of can laying in the gra ss. It was a good 50 ft away from the burnbarrel and had to have gone throu gh tree branches. Razor sharp edges. I decided that was the last can I wou ld burn.
Harry K
Liquid gas can not burn, it has to turn into a vapor and the vapor burns if the air/fuel ratio is correct. Those near empty cans just build up pressuer and burst. Not much to burn. If lots of stuff is left in them, they burst and the material is almost like a vapor cloud. Then you get the fuel/air explosion. Just try burning a bit of flower and it is difficult to burn. But if it is tossed up in the air, it is possiable that it will explode if there is a flame in the dust.
A couple decades ago, another idiot ^h^h^h^h^h fellow and I did spray cans on a fire at the county park. It was a stone structure with walls, so we didn't figure to be much risk of shrapnel. I refused to do pesticides. We did stuff like carb cleaner, ether. The loudest bang was a mostly empty can of ether car starting spray. I'd not do that again, any time in my life, far too dangerous.
P.S. Used to be a volunteer fire fighter. Still have a lot of the mindset and point of view.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus
expand enough to burst cans. I used to toss them in the burn barrel back when they were still legal. I quit the day I tossed on in and went on about my grass mowing. Heard the "BANG!". Next round with the mower I found the end of can laying in the grass. It was a good
50 ft away from the burnbarrel and had to have gone through tree branches. Razor sharp edges. I decided that was the last can I would burn.From what you describe, you likely had the cap screwed on, tightly. If the cap were off, no way to build that much pressure.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus
Where I worked a lot of spray cans were used. They were full of silicon and propelent. When a process line was started melted plastic (polyester) came out of a hole about an inch in diameter and down a shoot about 4 inches wide. The plastic was pulled off in long slabs about 4 feet long and put in metel buggies. People would sometimes toss the cans in that buggie. The plastic was about 250 deg C. The cans would heat up and explode. The full cans would make the biggest explosion No fire was involved. I tried to stay out of that area when that was going on.
Per snipped-for-privacy@spamblocked.com:
Per Gil:
Now we're getting somewhere.....
There will not be more air in the nearly empty cans. Air can not get into the can after it is filled at the factory.
There is less paint and less gas to put pressure on the paint. The full cans explode more violently because the paint formes a vapor cloud when it bursts and it may be more full of gas which may be flamable. The more stuff to burn, the bigger the explosion.
I had a full 5 gal can of gas overflow when I was filling it from a barrel, Caught fire but only burned from the spout and it was sitting in a pool of fire. Of course there, there would have been no airspace so...
As for those burning cans, the gas itself can expand enough to burst cans. I used to toss them in the burn barrel back when they were still legal. I quit the day I tossed on in and went on about my grass mowing. Heard the "BANG!". Next round with the mower I found the end of can laying in the grass. It was a good 50 ft away from the burnbarrel and had to have gone through tree branches. Razor sharp edges. I decided that was the last can I would burn.
Harry K
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Liquid gas can not burn, it has to turn into a vapor and the vapor burns if the air/fuel ratio is correct. Those near empty cans just build up pressuer and burst. Not much to burn. If lots of stuff is left in them, they burst and the material is almost like a vapor cloud. Then you get the fuel/air explosion. Just try burning a bit of flower and it is difficult to burn. But if it is tossed up in the air, it is possiable that it will explode if there is a flame in the dust.
A couple decades ago, another idiot ^h^h^h^h^h fellow and I did spray cans on a fire at the county park. It was a stone structure with walls, so we didn't figure to be much risk of shrapnel. I refused to do pesticides. We did stuff like carb cleaner, ether. The loudest bang was a mostly empty can of ether car starting spray. I'd not do that again, any time in my life, far too dangerous.
P.S. Used to be a volunteer fire fighter. Still have a lot of the mindset and point of view.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 * Origin: (1:249/999)
--- Synchronet 3.15b-Win32 NewsLink 1.92 SpaceSST BBS Usenet Fidonet Gateway
expand enough to burst cans. I used to toss them in the burn barrel back when they were still legal. I quit the day I tossed on in and went on about my grass mowing. Heard the "BANG!". Next round with the mower I found the end of can laying in the grass. It was a good
50 ft away from the burnbarrel and had to have gone through tree branches. Razor sharp edges. I decided that was the last can I would burn.From what you describe, you likely had the cap screwed on, tightly. If the cap were off, no way to build that much pressure.
- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 * Origin: (1:249/999)
--- Synchronet 3.15b-Win32 NewsLink 1.92 SpaceSST BBS Usenet Fidonet Gateway
Where I worked a lot of spray cans were used. They were full of silicon and propelent. When a process line was started melted plastic (polyester) came out of a hole about an inch in diameter and down a shoot about 4 inches wide. The plastic was pulled off in long slabs about 4 feet long and put in metel buggies. People would sometimes toss the cans in that buggie. The plastic was about 250 deg C. The cans would heat up and explode. The full cans would make the biggest explosion No fire was involved. I tried to stay out of that area when that was going on.
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