My new high MPG pick-up "truck"...

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Not needed. Wife says I've been going down hill for past few years.
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On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:29:13 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

LOL! ;-)
--
Keith



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wrote:

The automakers will make anything that the public wants to buy. Last time I was at the dealership no one held a gun to my head and said that I must buy a gas guzzling SUV. They make the SUV because that is what people are buying. All these dealerships also offer smaller more fuel efficient vehicles (except hummer and perhaps a couple others).
Small cars are more "cool" now than they ever were. Most of the kids want a Honda that they can soup up today. Those that drive a SUV do so because it was a hand me down from their parents much the way I got stuck driving the old station wagon geek mobile back when I started driving.
In my opinion the first thing that needs to happen is the insurance policies need to be rewritten so that one person can own two vehicles without paying almost full load on two vehicles when they can only drive one at a time.
I would LOVE to buy a small super fuel efficient car to drive back and forth the work and to do errands in. I HAVE to have a vehicle capable of towing and able to seat six in reasonable comfort. If I buy a second car I am looking at $150 a month for insurance plus a payment on the vehicle itself. If the new vehicle saves me 1/3 on my now $300 a month gasoline bill I am still hundreds in the hole at the end of the month. End result.. I'm driving a full size vehicle back and forth to work every day wasting gas.
Steve B.
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My son, now 35 and has owned a 3000GT, Trans-Am, Camero,, etc, but still complains how difficult it was to drive a '71 Ford wagon when he was in high school.
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Last time you were at the dealership did you see any cars with gas mileage in the 50s or 60s with sticker prices under $13K? I doubt it. Maybe if they had them people would buy them. Especially or kids. It could be done and is done in other countries.
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User Example wrote:

The Prius has the mileage, but not the price. However, your price is a red herring as people have no problem paying $35K for an SUV so paying $22K for a Prius isn't a problem.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

They pay 35K for the SUV because they think they are getting a $35K car... but $22K for a prius which is about the same type of car you normally pay $16K for? No way!
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User Example wrote:

Then you really don't care about fuel prices and availability so fill up your SUV and be quiet.
Matt
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Not a question of total dollars, but of perceived value. If the Prius was equipped as a standard gasoline powered car, it would sell for about $15k or $16k. For the same price as the Prius, I can buy a minimal model Buick LeSabre and have lots more room and comfort.
Comes down to paying $22k for a $16k car just to be "green" and probably not save a buck in the overall life of the car. Even at today's prices, there is no payback for a long time. In 75,000 miles (assuming a 15 mpg gain) you'd save 1125 gallons of gas, at 3.30 a gallon, only $3712. Not enough to pay the difference in car cost.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

And that is the reason that Detriot doesn't make cars that get 55-60 MPG. The technology required is very expensive. However, that will change over time and as fuel costs get to $5+ per gallon, the pay back economics will change.
Matt
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wrote in message

Yes, but your normal car depreciates to maybe %60 of it's sale price withiin a few years. A Prius may retain 90%. There's several thousands in savings right there. People right now are selling used Prius for more than they paid, and that was long before this hurricane hit.
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So far the Prius is holding value very well. BUT.. that same Prius is going to need a very expensive battery replacement in a few years time. We are talking thousands of dollars.
I think the hybrids are a good idea and am glad to see them selling well because those sales will encourage the auto companies to continue to improve the technology and develop more technologies to save energy. For my dollar though I would choose something like a VW diesel that gets the same if not better gas mileage without all the unknowns of future battery cost.
Steve B.
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Yep, what do you think a ten year old Prius needing batteries is worth! Not much is my bet! Greg
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wrote:

I don't think it will be anywhere near ten years. Most things I own with rechargeable batteries show noticeable loss of power after three years and have to be replaced by five years. I could be all wet on this subject, just would not be willing to gamble my money on it.
Steve B.
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Steve B. wrote:

You could be right but the warranty for the batteries is 10 years from what I understand.
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User Example wrote:

I was at a Toyota dealer on Saturday and was told 8 years or 100,000 miles.
Matt
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Steve B. wrote:

That was my conclusion also ... until I tried to find a VW diesel this weekend. I live in PA, right near the NY border. I found out that NY doesn't allow diesel cars to be sold in the state (for emissions reasons the dealer told me), but you can buy big honking 3/4 ton diesel pickups. Only in NY ... well, and CA.
I then drove to the dealer in PA, and he just laughed when I asked about availability of diesels. He politely said I'd have to take a number and wait in a long line. The local Toyota dealer has Prius' on the lot.
Matt
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On 9/5/2005 6:26 PM US(ET), Matt Whiting took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

BS! Where did you find out that NY doesn't allow diesel cars to be sold in NY? If you want to buy a diesel automobile in NY, go to any Mercedes or VW dealer.

--
Bill


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willshak wrote:

NY is one of the CARB states that has adopted California emission requirements. You cannot buy a *new* diesel car in NY state because none of them meet the emission requirements.

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willshak wrote:

From Bill Cooke Volkswagen in Ithaca, NY. NY has adopted the CARB standards and I was told that the VW diesels can't meet these standards currently.

Duh, that is what I did and wrote. Can't you read?
I searched around and found nothing I'd call "official", but did find several references such as this that also suggest that VW TDI cars aren't available in CARB states. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=8&url=http%3A//forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp%3FTOPIC_ID%3D4396&ei=HOkcQ52nB5vC-QG1iom3Cw
Matt
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