My new cabinets

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Hi,
I'm not sure what my purpose is for posting the pictures of my new cabinets constructed by a local carpenter. Perhaps the experts here would be able to give me some words of wisdom or consolation.
http://freeboundaries.com/Cabinets /
Thank you!
Sam
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Hey - that looks pretty good.
For typical american craftsmanship that is.
It was probably made from reclaimed lumber from a recent tornado, hurricane or flood.
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The OP did his own work. LOL
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Hi,
OP here.
My carpenter's current position is, paraphrasing, that I am hard to satisfy and that is the source of the problem. So may I rephrase my question the following way: Are any of my complaints captured in the photos unreasonable? If I get answers here, I will show the thread to my carpenter.
Thank you,
Sam
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On 11/11/2012 12:15 PM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

and that is the source of the problem. So may I rephrase my question the following way: Are any of my complaints captured in the photos unreasonable? If I get answers here, I will show the thread to my carpenter.

Get another carpenter. One with references.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

there is a difference between a carpenter and a cabinetmaker, which you obviously have found out. Everything in your photos shows that he doesn't know what he's doing. I hope for your sake you haven't paid him. Good luck
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wrote:

That is an accurate answer.
A framing carpenter thinks 1/8" is close enough, a finish carpenter thinks 1/16" is close enough but a cabinet maker wants it to be a 64th or less. You carpenter may have also been limited by his tools. There is a big difference between a regular table saw that bangs around a construction site all day and a cabinet saw that stays tuned up in a shop.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:15:10 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

that is the source of the problem. So may I rephrase my question the following way: Are any of my complaints captured in the photos unreasonable? If I get answers here, I will show the thread to my carpenter.

So you show this thread to the "carpenter." What makes you think he can read? I think you made a big mistake. I really think your best bet is to pay him as little as possible, just to make him go away. Maybe you can write that off as a casualty loss on your taxes. Then figure out what to do next. Anyway, that's what I would do if I ever got in your boots. Unless you've got some leverage you're not telling us about, you'll probably eat this. You're in deep.
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On 11/11/2012 1:15 PM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

and that is the source of the problem. So may I rephrase my question the following way: Are any of my complaints captured in the photos unreasonable? If I get answers here, I will show the thread to my carpenter.

Obviously photos show a very sloppy job but what good will it do to show the carpenter?
Are you still negotiating payment? It would appear it is going to cost to have corrected and I don't think you would want him to do it.
If he is already paid, you may be out of luck. Lawsuits can be iffy, I've been there and done that and it was not worth the time and effort.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:15:10 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

that is the source of the problem. So may I rephrase my question the following way: Are any of my complaints captured in the photos unreasonable? If I get answers here, I will show the thread to my carpenter.

Unreasonable? They look like they were built by a 7th grade shop class, not a professional carpenter.
The face frames should be nearly invisible joints. The door height is out of alignment, but that, hopefully, is easily adjusted if he used Euro style hinges. The shelf gap on the side should be about 1/32"
Gap between molding and door should be about 1/32: also, but that may be filled with colored caulk or painted, not left like it is.
Door gap to cabinet should be 0", a nice snug fit to keep dust out.
I hope you've not paid him yet. Given the poor quality, I'd not want him to fix them, but to tear them out and go away, never to be seen again.
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On 11/11/2012 1:27 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

That's exactly what I was thinking.
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On 11/11/2012 12:15 PM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote: ...

What I saw wouldn't satisfy tolerances for framing for hanging sheetrock, what more cabinetry...
--
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On 11/11/2012 12:15 PM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

and that is the source of the problem. So may I rephrase my question the following way: Are any of my complaints captured in the photos unreasonable? If I get answers here, I will show the thread to my carpenter.

There is quite a bit of difference between a carpenter and a cabinet maker. My late friend GB was a cabinet maker and strived for perfection. ^_^
TDD
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Do this:
Arrange for you and him to go to the closest house that's for sale that is having an open house. Usually on a saturday/sunday, noon till 4 pm. He should be satisfied that it's a random house that neither of you have been in before. You both go there and look carefully at the kitchen cabinets. Hopefully you'll be able to show him what competently-made cabinets should look like.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Not in my opinion. Heck, you didn't even complain about things like the wood being insufficiently prepped for the finish. For example, the last photo that shows fuzz at the end of the shelf and dings and/or stuff stuck in the finish; the joints between rails and stiles on both the face frame and doors. Those are really wierd face frames, BTW...it looks like he eithre cut down the width of the stiles or added a piece at the corners to accommodate too short rails.
Your complaints are not unreasonable, the cabinets are poor in the extreme.
--

dadiOH
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com says...

and that is the source of the problem. So may I rephrase my question the following way: Are any of my complaints captured in the photos unreasonable? If I get answers here, I will show the thread to my carpenter.

That "work" is lousy and unacceptable. Simply compare it to cabinets for sale at home depot. Or the woodworking done on ANY furniture for sale in a furniture store.
FYI - I hired a young (20's) guy to help me remodel my house. He nailed in a vertical stud for a window opening which was 3/4 inch further to the left at the bottom than at the top. I told him we needed to correct that as the window would be slanted when installed...
He argued with me that this was perfectly acceptable work these days, everybody does work like that now, etc.
He also offered to make some cabinets for me! (I think I will pass...)
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On 11/11/2012 11:59 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

constructed by a local carpenter. Perhaps the experts here would be able to give me some words of wisdom or consolation.

How sad! What did the project cost? At what point did you notice defects? What is background, references on carpenter? Have you paid in full? Does he have license and insurance? Did you get written bid? See some of his work prior to hiring him?
It scares me to think how much custom cabinets must have cost!! What kind of wood?
We had cabinets refaced, new doors and drawers, for a very substantial sum of money. The cabs were built-in-place plywood, which was reason for not just chucking them and buying new. Even though the contractor seemed excellent, his subs were not...I'm just a housewife but know enough to have caught them on some important issues. Part of our success was NOT being afraid to approach the guys on issues, respectfully, and expect them to be corrected....I would not confront the guy and say that some people on a newsgroup think your work is garbage. Unless you are ready to lawyer up, I'd call him and ask him to come in to check some issues, take it from there. I've been exceedingly fortunate with contractors, and part of the reason for that is knowing in advance what to expect in terms of methods, materials. You can tell at bid time, I suspect, whether someone is competent, honest and willing to work through issues....
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

I don't know where to begin. To say that the cabinets are amateurish in the extreme would amount to praise for them. You would get far better cabinets buying the cheapest available at Home Depot or Lowes.
IMO, the best thing you can do with them is rip them out and burn them. If you do that and hire someone else to make new ones, hire a CABINET MAKER, not a carpenter. And look at his work before committing to anyone.
I feel your pain and hope you aren't out too much. Is there some sort of board in your area to mediate disputes between customers and contractors?
--

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Sam,
Stop, do not let this person back into your home. I would not even attempt to fix these. To even classify this person as a carpenter is an understatement. I have seen better quality from a handyman, not even in the same classification as carpenter.
It appears your guy bought a saw, and considers themselves a carpenter. I can't believe they would even take a project on involving cabinets.
Do yourself a favor, and start from scratch. If you don't, you will regret it as long as you live there.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:59:50 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

constructed by a local carpenter. Perhaps the experts here would be able to give me some words of wisdom or consolation.

I concur with the others. Honestly I think this carpenter never did cabinets before he got your job. I would not pay him in full until it is done right.
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