My kitchen remodeling advice

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Try to stay away from 30” ranges and cook tops if you don’t want to lim it your options; especially if you may want to replace it in the future. Yo u will get a better selection if you go with either a 24” or a 36”.
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On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 22:50:56 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Dumbest thing I've heard in a while. 30" is the most popular size. Sure, 36" is better if you have the space. 24" is rather limited as they only have the so called "apartment" sized ranges and very small selection.
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Maybe he's talking about height. <g>
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On Saturday, October 12, 2013 7:27:40 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You will get a better selection if you go with either a 24” or a 36”.

+1
30" is the major share of the installed base. 36" is what is preferred today and usually used if you have the room, but I would guess that they still sell more 30" 24" is for the space challenged.
I changed my old 30" oven/micro combo unit a couple years ago. There were plenty of 30" units of all kinds available, but I quickly realized that there isn't much difference in price between a 30" and 36". But 36" gives you more room, looks nicer, more pro looking, and I'm sure is better for resale value. So, I spent some time figuring out if it was possible to get a 36" into the existing cabinets that were designed for 30". It was a bit of an engineering challenge and a lot more work than just sliding in a new 30" But I'm very happy with the result and how it looks. You would never know it was not originally designed for 36". I also went for double ovens instead of the microwave/oven combo.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

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On Saturday, October 12, 2013 12:35:45 PM UTC-4, Ken wrote:

re. You will get a better selection if you go with either a 24” or a 36 ”.

I'll see if I can take a pic and figure out how to host it on one of the pic sites when I get a chance. But the pic I don't think is going to shed much light on what I did. Also, I made an error in posting. I went from 24" to 30", not 30" to 36" But I think the principle is the same.
Basically what was there was a kitchen cabinet section, matching the other cabinets with an oak finish. I guess it was 30" wide or whatever a standard width is that will fit a 24" oven, but not a 30" It went from floor to soffit, a whole unit, with a drawer maybe 12" high at the bottom, then the cutout above that for the 24" oven and microwave, and then a cabinet with two doors that was maybe 2 ft high above the top of the opening where the microwave ended. This cabinet also ended the whole cabinet run, with the left side being up against an existing wall. That was critical. They actually had a filler strip about 2" wide or so on the left and one maybe 1" wide on the right.
So, the basic process was to take out the cabinet, then cut off the top piece which leaves you with the cabinet and the bottom piece with the drawer. You know have those to work with. Next problem is that the new double oven, top cabinet and drawer were several inches too high. So, I took the top cabinet to a local cabinet shop and had them shorten it for me. That cost $100. The rest of the process was to use the old filler strips and get some new pieces of oak to run from floor to soffit on either side that were like 1" thick. So it's like that formed the shell of the "new top to bottom cabinet, if you will" and the top cabinet, drawer unit, and ovens went into it. I had to stain the side fillers to match, but it came out excellent.
I don't know if I would have been this ambitious, except that I previously did something similar to put in a new fridge. There was a cabinet that was about 24" high between the soffit and the old fridge. I took that cabinet out, took it over to the cabinet guy and he shortened it. So, I knew that could be done. Also, for some dumb reason, on the wall where the fridge goes, the cabinets there were set way back from the front of the soffit. That left the old fridge sticking out and looking like hell. I realized that with a counter-depth fridge, if I moved the cabinets forward so they were about 1" back from the front, the new fridge would go entirely in with only the door itself extending past the cabinet. That came out great and also involved doing some minor staining of a piece of oak. So, with that experience, doing the major surgery on the oven cabinets was less risky. But I did measure everything 3 times, make a drawing, etc before I cut the old cabinet apart :)
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

in range a couple of years ago. It was 30" wide, but the depth and length of the new one was different from the original one. I wondered at the time if I had to remove the original drop in and install a unit that stood on the floor just what I would have to do? Such modifications can be more complex than first thought, that is why I asked.
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Yes, modifications are often necessary. I've installed a "drop in", (stood on the floor) and had to trim the counter at the front because the profile of the trim is different. As far as the height goes, that's what the leveling legs are for.
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On 10/12/13 2:38 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Try this site: http://picpaste.com
Free, no registration necessary, easy to use.
You _do_ have to copy the resulting URL, so you can include it in your followup to this group...
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On Saturday, October 12, 2013 4:27:40 AM UTC-7, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

will get a better selection if you go with either a 24 or a 36 .

In the old days if you spilled something on the range you could open the to p to clean it. Now you can't open the top of any residential ranges; they'r e all sealed, and I don't mean sealed from spillage because any liquid gets through, they're all sealed so YOU can't open them. This doesn't apply to commercial ranges and cook tops; they can still be opened to clean but only come in 24", 36" and 48".
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

No they're not "ALL" sealed. Are you really an idiot, or do you just play one on Usenet?
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On Saturday, October 12, 2013 12:05:16 PM UTC-4, Nick Peterson wrote:

Is he referring to gas ranges with sealed vs conventional burners and how you clean them? If so, that's a subset of the market, ie doesn't apply to the flat electric ones, induction ones, etc.
And if the issue is he's saying you should avoid 30" because it eliminates most or all of the commercial eqpt, that's a whole different can of worms. Probably 99% of those buying ranges don't buy true commercial equipment. And I can't imagine anyone buying commercial $$$ eqpt buying a 24" range.
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On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 09:36:36 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Most commercial ranges are not certified for residential use anyway. They don't have the proper insulation for cabinet clearance. It "can" be done, but not worth the hassle. Plenty of high end commercial style ranges for serious cooks.
We have a 30" Bertazzoni, but I'd love to have a 48". http://us.bertazzoni.com/
This is what we have in black http://us.bertazzoni.com/professional-series/ranges/30-4-burner-gas-range The paint is done by the same shop that does Lamborghini cars.
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On Saturday, October 12, 2013 3:17:58 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I was ready to say something along those lines myself ie that there is probably more to it than just the standard 24, 30, 36 when you start going to real pro models. I wasn't thinking of insulation, but more like how they blend in with cabinets, do they have an ugly open space below, which is great for a kitchen but maybe not so great for a house, etc.

Looks nice. I have an older 30" Jennaire electric cooktop in a center island. If you saw my other post, I managed to get a bigger counterdepth fridge in and go from 24" ovens to 30". So, I was thinking of figuring out if it was possible to get a 36" gas into the island. But it has drawers, cabinets, etc, so it would be another major engineering project. I looked at it a bit and think it could probably be done, but that's as far as I got
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On Saturday, October 12, 2013 9:05:16 AM UTC-7, Nick Peterson wrote:

I would greatly appreciate the make and model of any residential range or cook top that does not have a sealed top so that I can recommend it to all my clients and even buy one for myself. Thanking you in advance for such information.
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On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 23:00:16 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I had the same reservations but SWMBO wanted the range with the sealed burners. Never had an issue with it. Boilovers were an easy cleanup. I wouldn't hesitate to go there again, though it could be different with low-end ranges.
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On Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:50:48 AM UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

1. A lot of my clients are landlords that have tenants that are not as careful to not spill things. 2. Some people use their ranges more than others which leads to more possibility of spillage. 3. The range that I have in my house is forty years old and still going strong; can you say the same thing about yours? 4. What was the exact reason that you had to replace your range last time?
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On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 10:10:35 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

..and they think the tenants are going to open the top to clean under? Ick! I can imagine some of the science experiments...

I doubt anyone uses theirs more than SWMBO. ;-)

No, the house is only six.

It was an electric contractor's special (ugly, cheap, crap). SWMBO wanted gas ($1000 to run the gas plus the $3K for the range). The house was three years old.
The house before that had an ugly white spiral-burner electric range. We replaced that with a stainless glass-top range (probably should have done gas, then, too). In fact, I've never replaced a range because it no longer worked. Your argument is specious.
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On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 10:10:35 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

We have sealed burners also. Makes cleaning spills much easier as the spill is right there and easily soaked up, wiped up
Forty year old ranges are common. Not much to go wrong with them as long as you get a flame. We replaced ours that was a mid-priced model when new. It was about 25 years old. The timer no longer worked properly for anything, especially self cleaning, appearance was getting a bit shabby looking, then the oven stopped working. Probably fixable, but wife wanted new so we got new. Local appliance store had a good deal on a Bertazzoni that was imported when the exchange rate was better.
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On Sunday, October 13, 2013 10:29:28 AM UTC-7, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Thank heaven for desirous wives.
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