moving water main valve

[Cory Lechner]

The water main valve in our house is old (25 years++) and is leaking pretty bad (3/4" copper pipe). The valve is situated just above floor level, in which the water main pipe it is connected to comes out of a 12" deep concrete hole (sump hole?), 24" x 24" square (weeping tile pipe drain into this hole as well). The sump hole has a plywood cover with a slot in it for the water main pipe to come through. The present water main valve then leads into the water meter, then into the wall to supply the house with water. There is also bare copper ground cable and clamp (which is badly rusted from the leaky valve) clamped to the water main pipe below the plywood cover as well (in the sump hole) that will have to be re-installed as well.

I want to replace the old leaking valve with a new one that appears to allow a bit better water flow (the new valve appears to have a bigger opening for water flow). If I just wanted to repair the valve and not worry about improving water flow, I could just replace the O-rings in the valve (but I want improve water flow a bit). I will have to sweat a number of copper fittings to complete the job.

My question:

I want to move the valve so that it is not visible, so I want to change it's location to down into the sump hole below the plywood cover instead of above it. Is there any problems foreseen with moving the location of the valve to below the cover into the sump hole?

Cory

[Speedy Jim]

FWIW soldered fittings are not normally used (allowed) before the meter. Maybe it's normal practice where you are...

If the valve has a drain (waste) fitting, I would have a problem with it being in a sump for sanitary reasons.

I assume you'll have the utility shut off water at the street for this project. If it won't shut off completely, you'll have a really tough time soldering with water trickling thru.

Are the meter unions sealed? Will you have to break the seals to do the work?

Since there is no union on your new valve, I don't see any reason that the electric service grounding conductor can't be attached above the sump. Make sure there is a bonding jumper around the meter.

Jim

[Cory Lechner]

re-installed

1) What the logic in not allowing soldered fittings before the meter?? Are you supposed to use compression fittings?

2) The valve I bought (ball valve)has no drain (waste) fitting (I assume a waste/drain fitting is the small capped fitting on the side of the valve? The old, leaky valve has one).... .

3) I am arranging to have it shut off tomorrow. What do I do if it doesn't shut off completely? Use compression fittings?

4) I will have to break the meter's seal (I just had the old water meter replaced today), I talked to the installer - he said he can come back and re-seal the meter, no charge...

5) I plan to use a booster cable as a bonding jumper (to prevent me from possible electrocution). I wouldn't mind placing the electric service grounding conductor below the plywood cover with the valve if I can... 6) Union on new valve? What do you mean?

Cory

[zxcvbob]

I had a leaky restrictive main valve in my basement (before the meter) replaced a couple of years ago, and I think the plumber used a flare fitting.

Bob

[MLD]

Some plumbers are reluctant to shut off the city water supply located outside the house. I had the main valve replaced a couple of years ago and the plumber arranged for the city to shut off the water. In the process of doing so, the extension shaft (surface to underground valve) broke off. Street had to be dug up to get at the valve and to replace the extension shaft. City trucks, 4-5 guys, Jack hammers, back hoes, hot topping etc-----Plumber quote "Now you see why I want the city to be the one who shuts off the outside water". MLD

[Speedy Jim]

The fear is that the soldered fittings can come apart (espec. if freezing occurs). Flare fittings are usually specd.

Yes, that's right. You should be good, but to drain the piping (if ever needed) the meter will need to be loosened.

No, I wouldn't trust compression fittings at all here. One time-worn trick is to stuff the pipe with bread (!). It soaks up the trickle while you solder and flushes out later. A hotter torch (MAP or even oxy-acetylene) works wonders too.

Your new valve is permanently attached to the pipe, so it can't interrupt the grounding path. The meter unions could interrupt the path if loosened (assumes metal meter) and thus the meter must have a bonding jumper around it (a permanent jumper, not just temp jumper cables while you work on it). Jim

[Cory Lechner]

Should I use flare fittings? The old valve was soldered on, and the soldered connections have not leaked, just the valve itself....

I'll use the bread trick if necessary....

So are you saying I can use the booster cables until I can get the permanent bonding jumper re-installed?

[Cory Lechner]

I'm just concerned about the 3/4" main line in the sump hole breaking off when I'm trying to cut it for the new copper coupler... any ideas on how to prevent this?

re-installed

[Speedy Jim]

Yes

[alt-hvac Moderated]

I was in a plumbing supply house a couple months ago. They had a gadget at the counter they were showing someone. A threaded shaft rig with a rubber that expands. You could put it into the pipe, adn then slip a full flow (ball or gate) valve over it, and then solder while the expander holds water back.

It was about twenty bucks, don't know if it works or not.

[Cory Lechner]

I decided to place and sweat the valve above the plywood cover, making sure that I applied plenty of solder. I hope it seals ok.... I'm waitng for the City to come and turn the water back on.

[Cory Lechner]

Yay! no leaks... Everything appears to be rock solid. Thanks for the input everyone!!!

[zxcvbob]

Congratulations. But what would you have done if it *had* leaked? I think that's why flare fittings are commonly used -- if it leaks, just tighten the nut. If a soldered joint leaks, you gotta shut the water off again.

Best regards, Bob