More strange electrical discoveries

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Don't sweat it Tomi Boi, when discussing _anything_ electricial, you're still the leading idiot in this NG.
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volts500 wrote:

400-8. Uses Not Permitted ...(2) where run through holes in walls, ceilings, or floors; (3) where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings; (4) where attached to building surfaces; (5) where concealed behind building walls, ceilings, or floors....
Best regards, Bob
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zxcvbob wrote:

That is certainly a more complete description of what is not allowed. Thanks Bob. Regardless of whether wiring described by the op acceptable or not, the description of the wire in an open attic wouldn't appear that even (5) would apply and (1) would appear doubtful.
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George E. Cawthon wrote:

I don't know what's supposed to be wrong with flexible cord, so long as it's used within its current rating. Actually, 400-7a says it can for "(7) prevention of the transmission of noise and vibration."
I once made the mistake of calling an electrical supplier in advance and having them cut me a length of #12 cord to make a heavy duty extention cord, and I didn't realize the significance of the 'J' in the cord type. I think I got STO cord. It was so big (about 5/8" diameter) I couldn't get the ends on it.
Bob
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A ceiling fan is a fixed device. The box it hangs from is certianly fixed to the building. Feeding this with an extention cord is a violation no matter how you attempt to lawyer-speak your way out of it.
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So is a garage door opener, a stove, or dryer. Almost always cord-connected these days. My undercounter dishwasher is also cord connected.

What box? Was there a box?
The fan could have been surface mounted with a backplate.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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That rule is intended to prevent you using flex cords and cables for permanent (ie: in wall, supplying receptacles etc) wiring.
If you surface mount a ceiling fan and put a cord on it, it's not "wiring of a structure" any more than hanging a recharging electric razor on a hook.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
  Click to see the full signature.
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No but there is a code against passing flexible cords through holes in walls and floors...
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Pick up the phone, call _any_ certified electrical inspector (AHJ). You'll soon find that your interpretation of the "intent" of the NEC is mistaken. The "intent" also includes ceilings. Try reading all of 400.8. Better yet, find _one_ electrical inspector in the US who will pass such an installation. Just the fact that the cord passes through the ceiling is enough to disallow it, which happens to be the second rule of Section 400.8:
400.8 Uses not permitted. "(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors."
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That's a good one!
"Handyman" calls me, saying it's the damnest thing he has ever seen........lights in garage only work when dryer is turned on. Someone had ran a 10-2 w ground Romex, tapped off the _unfused_ side of the service disconnect, up into the attic, across the length of the house, down the side of the house (with no conduit), underground, into a detached garage, and into one of those cheapo 30 amp black plastic MLO panels. Then used 2 individual breakers to feed the dryer the 240v circuit. The lights for the garage were connected (two wires under one lug) also to one of the individual dryer breakers. That's the breaker that tripped, causing the lights to not work unless the dryer was turned on. In the process of tearing all that out and re-wiring, discovered that the range was wired with 10-2 w ground Romex on a 60 amp breaker.
Then there's was another house where the entire first floor and basement of the house was wired by an "electronics technician" using zip cord.
Also once found a receptacle on a 20 amp circuit (in a factory) wired with telephone wire.
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I'm no electrician to know where on the ladder of foolishness this one stands in comparison to anyone else's examples, but even I stood there wondering WTF someone was thinking over this one:
I gutted the entire basement a few months back, and I started ripping down the drywall and paneling in a little 10x10 room made into a bedroom. Each and every one of the room's electrical outlets, which were placed normal height, were all conduited and wired into to another outlet about 4 feet higher. Each and every one of those higher-up outlets were live, and had been duct-taped over and covered over with a layer of insulation, and then drywalled and paneled over.
My wife and I inherited this money pit eyesore we live in from my sister in law, who never had the place inspected before she and her now-dead fiancee bought the place. Which has instilled in me the solid opinion that anyone buyiing a house should spring for an inspection before they buy a heap of rubble, even if it does happen to be in a tony neighborhood.
I won't even go into one of the previous owners replacing pretty much all the original 3/4" copper water pipe with 1/2" PVC as yet another lunatic passage to adventure ...
AJS

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We did have an inspection done before we finally agreed to purchase the property, but is any inspector going to look for junction boxes hidden above a suspended ceiling and then open up those junction boxes?
MB
On 03/05/04 03:43 am AJScott put fingers to keyboard and launched the following message into cyberspace:

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J-boxes above a suspended ceiling is perfectly okay.
J-boxes sealed behind drywall isn't. That example was probably that the room was originally used as a workshop, and moved the outlets when they converted it. Burying the abandoned ones is definately bad.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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On 5 Mar 2004 21:46:05 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

When we bought our run down 1921 house in 1981, we did a lot of interior repair, remodeling and renovation, for which we hired a contractor. One item we asked the guy to attend to was a large bulge in the plaster on a living room wall.
At some point, he chopped the bulge open, meaning to replaster the spot. Inside was a live BX cable with the end unwrapped, wires exposed, apparently meant for a long removed wall sconce. It was just plastered over into the wall. He said there were sparks all over the place when he hit it with the hammer claw.
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Not exactly in the same category, but no less dumb is this one. As a retiree, I was working at our local RadioShack. A woman came in and wanted a line cord with a plug on both ends so she could interconnect two strip lights. I told her we didn't have anything like that and furthermore it was illegal and dangerous. She said that the guy at Home Depot assured her that we carried that item.
Charlie

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In a local hardware store, around Christmas they put up a placard showing 2 male clamp-un plugs (The kind you'd use to fix a lamp plug without having to strip the wires) connceted to a short length of lamp cord.
The sign reads: "WE DO NOT SELL THESE"
Clerk tells me every single year at least 5 homeowners string up their lights in the wrong direction, and end up with the male plug at the wrong end.
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October 2002 we moved into a 35 year old house. A few months later, one of my (many) projects was to put an electrical outlet (with GFCI) in the main bathroom. The only electrical outlet in there was on the metal base on a wall mount light fixture, but because of the height and angle, we never used that outlet.
I shut off the power and removed the fixture...Then just stopped and stared at it in disbelief.
The wire coming into the wall box was standard 14-2 w/g romex. The light fixture had two wires going to the light socket, and three wires (black/white/green) to the outlet (green also going to the base of the fixture). The white wires were all connected properly, but the black hot wire from the wall was connected to the black wire on the light socket, and the black AND GREEN wire to the outlet. That's right, the entire metal fixture was hot every time the light was turned on... On the wall directly over the bathroom sink... No GFCI... Copper plumbing that would provide a nice grounding path...
I don't know if it was original from the builders, but it looked old enough. Hard to belive it went that long without someone getting injured (or killed).
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