more fun with air conditioning

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This is Turtle.
Common sence -- a great trait!!!!!!!
TURTLE
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Honesty and knowing your trade a Greater Trait !!!!
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (J Jensen) wrote in message

Part of the answer this has to do with where in Texas you live. If you live in the Houston area, you would probably want to leave it on at all times, if nothing else to prevent a build up of humidity in your home. If you live in a less humid part of the state, this is not as much of a consideration.

Realistically, you have little hope of cooling down a large cement slab, except if you maintain a constant temperature in your home.

It anything, this simply reveals you need a larger air conditioner unit since your current one is unable to maintain the temperature within acceptable tollerances.

I personally have not found this to be the case, either in upstate New York or here in New England. The current drawn by the compressor in an air conditioner barely reflect changes in temperature conditions.

I'd assume that you are joking here.

Shading the condensor unit will improve air conditining performance, but will have only small impact on electricity costs.

This depend on how interested you are in air conditioning your ceilings. Most people couldn't give a hoot.

If the temperature differential between the intake air and the outlet air temperature are operating within specificationd, there is no need to measure the freon pressures.
Harry C.
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And your comment to his #7 is just as asinine!!
#1 It shows you know little about refrigeration.
#2 That you are a HACK, if you really are in the trade.
#3 That you need to learn more about HVAC systems.
~kjpro~
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Harry Conover) wrote in message
[snip]

Yeah, as I said in another reply, I think the electric motor would always take the same current when running, but just run for a shorter period of time at night.

No joke. The same person said this as #3 about the current at night and #2 about cooling the slab.

It runs multiple times per hour here (especially the afternoon) and the metal gets very hot in the sun. I tend to think that the savings in shading it must be significant over the length of the summer.
--Jeff
[snip]
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This has to be some of the purist BS I have read lately.
~kjpro~
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Dave probably sent that information to him....you know Dave....full of shit and thinks hes correct.... But...But...its beercan cold doncha know?

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Damn, you trade guys are good on arm waving pontification, but short on details.
Could it possibly be that all you know about the subject is what you were told in trade-schools, and not by a competetent, degreed engineer?
Why the reluctance to attempt and correct the specific errors you found? Lemme guess!
Harry C.
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On 5 Aug 2004 10:19:41 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Harry Conover) wrote:
snip the razzamataz askew comment/s

digit read current tester (tong meter) is all you need to check 99.9% of "my AC is hot" domestic claims. This thread was presented badly, answered worse, deteriorated to the troll posted here. I trust that is enough details for you Harry.
You might want to enlighten me as to just *what I S* a <quote> degreed engineer </quote> as I have never heard of such an animal. Engineers (.au) have tertiary degrees issued after a University course in academic principles addressing Mechanical Services. Engineers write processes and 'cheat sheets'. We RefMechs (.au) OTOH have a degree of engineering **skill**, hence we are able to apply and interpolate psychrometrics in the field.
Most Engineers (.au) would have NFI as to the microcosms forming the substance of this thread,, though I do suspect their off-shore equivalents have attempted an answer here and there. **That** is usually how things get FooBar'd..... out here in the boonies <G>
You read as having a degree of certain eloquence Harry. Well it may be that you apply this degreed (sic) engineering to tasks at home buuuuuuuut please keep it in your own home and refrain from packaging the BS in ways that some poor sap may just , just believe your speak as Gospel.
cheers
BTZ
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We refmechs (.za) eat refmechs (.au) with bbq sauce, no garlic, and fly-swat in other hand.
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On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 03:05:07 +0100, "Marc O'Brien"

balls/man-bag/testes/gonads ..eh? <bg>
remember Breaker Morant?? Had some trouble handling that dude..IIRC :-))
/me waves
cYa
BTZ
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wrote:

Clyde Rathbone is the best thing that ever happened to Oz RU!!
A gift from an old ally :)
http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/31/1091080492118.html
http://news.google.co.uk/news?q=clyde+rathbone&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nn
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On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 03:26:14 +0100, "Marc O'Brien"
snip

me) that we (.au) attract the 'cream 0 de crop' from all places..eh? Not bad for a country evolved from a bunch of 'crims' deported from them shores, ner ere we return? <G>

cYa
BTZ
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This was what an a/c technician told me when I called him out to the house with the specific request to check if any Freon had leaked out of the system over the years, or if it was still operating at 100%. He would not do it, although he did check some other things. On the bright side, he did encourage me to sign up for yearly maintenance by his company... :) --Jeff
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (J Jensen) wrote in message

Your technician was correct. He would determine if it was operating at 100% though use his gauge set for pressure measurements, and the temperatures measured on the evaporator and condensor coil surfaces to approximate this determination. If these are within the prescribed ranges, there likely is little need to top off the refrigerant charge in the system.
So long as the freon in the system is at a sufficent level to continuously provide bubble free liquid in the high pressure line, it makes little difference in the operating characteristics of the air conditioning system.
In fact, larger industrial systems always include a view port in the liquid freon line to check for excess bubbles. Too many bubbles may also reflect a need for the addition of freon to the system or the installation of the system was faulty and contains trapped air.
A refrigeration gauge set is incapable of revealing this information, and indicates only that the pressures in the low and high pressure sides of the system are consistent with the particular variety of freon in use for the measured surface termperature on both the condensor and evaporator coils. It reveals very little helpful information about the adequacy of the freon charge in the system. Usually a pocket sized card for the freon in use (typically Freon-22 in small to medium size -- 3 to 30 tons -- central A/C systems).
On smaller home systems which lack a view port, most competent refrigeration techs will, after checking the operating pressures, charge the system up to the point where frost begins to appear on the evaporator low pressure tube fitting. This is the point of optimal cooling and presumably optimal system efficience.
I'm not a refrigeration engineer (although I am a physicist/engineer), but over the years (at least 30) I've maintained or installed some reasonable large refrigeration systems and air conditioners (some of which were two-stage special purpose systems capable of reaching test chamber temperature of below -80-degrees F), sever 30-60 ton air conditioning systems, and installed 3 central systems in homes that I've owned.
During these years, out of necessity I learned how to replace compressors, braze joints, pull a vacuum and "dry" the systes, employ leak detectors and repair leaks, all basic to the HVAC trade, consequently I'm pretty sure of the correctness of the info I post, and I would challenge any A/C or HVAC tech to specifically cite and correct any error. In fact, over 30 years I never had to employ an HVAC tech to correct any of my work. (In fact, it was the inadequance of the HVAC techs that I encountered that first cause me to get my hands dirty!)
Harry C.
p.s., Never SMOKE when you're working with freon. Any competent refrigeration engineer can explain to you why this precaution is needed, but your average HVAC tech is little more than a glorified plumber and likely hasn't a clue (unless of course his supervisor has informed him)!
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Hi Harry, hope you are having a nice day
On 04-Aug-04 At About 22:09:36, Harry Conover wrote to All Subject: Re: more fun with air conditioning
HC> From: snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Harry Conover)
HC> Your technician was correct. He would determine if it was operating HC> at 100% though use his gauge set for pressure measurements, HC> and the temperatures measured on the evaporator and condensor HC> coil surfaces to approximate this determination.
Not on coil surfaces but Line temps as in superheat and sub cooling.
HC> So long as the freon in the system is at a sufficent level to HC> continuously provide bubble free liquid in the high pressure line, it HC> makes little difference in the operating characteristics of the air HC> conditioning system.
wrong again. in some systems you want bubbles in the liquid column such as in a piston type metering device.
HC> In fact, larger industrial systems always include a view port in the HC> liquid freon line to check for excess bubbles. Too many bubbles HC> may also reflect a need for the addition of freon to the system HC> or the installation of the system was faulty and contains trapped HC> air.
actually the sight glass is only supposed to be used only for moisture indication. the only proper way to check is gauges using superheat and/or subcooling depending on metering device.
HC> A refrigeration gauge set is incapable of revealing this information, HC> and indicates only that the pressures in the low and high pressure HC> sides of the system are consistent with the particular variety HC> of freon in use for the measured surface termperature on both the HC> condensor and evaporator coils. It reveals very little helpful HC> information about the adequacy of the freon charge in the system. HC> Usually a pocket sized card for the freon in use (typically HC> Freon-22 in small to medium size -- 3 to 30 tons -- central A/C HC> systems).
HC> On smaller home systems which lack a view port, most competent HC> refrigeration techs will, after checking the operating pressures, HC> charge the system up to the point where frost begins to appear on the HC> evaporator low pressure tube fitting. This is the point of optimal HC> cooling and presumably optimal system efficience.
wrong again. as I said before. the only way to properly charge a system is by superheat or subcooling. this "frost back" method is sure early death for a system.
HC> I'm not a refrigeration engineer
It's quite obvious to anyone in the trade.
-=> HvacTech2 <=-
.. Fault lies with systems not the technologies involved.
___ TagDude 0.92+[DM] +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail
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On 22 Jul 2004 12:16:36 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (J Jensen) wrote:

And like the previous thread, I treat this posting as a troll. The list is ALL BS,, the responses here and before mostly ill informed Urban Myth and ANY discussion just a waste of bandwidth,,and time.
happy?
BTZ
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For years, the goal has been to get above 1 :-) But that's less important, since the energy is free.
Nick
"Unglazed collector/regenerator performance for a solar assisted open cycle absorption cooling system" by M. N. A. Hawlader, K. S. Novak, and B. D. Wood of the Center for Energy System Research, College of Engineering and Applied Sciences, Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ 85287-5806 USA, in Solar Energy, Vol. 50, pp 59-73, 1993: "An ordinary black shingled roof [was] used as a collector/regenerator for the evaporation of water to obtain a strong solution of [lithium chloride] absorbent... Experimental results [with a 36'x36' roof] show a regeneration efficiency varying between 38 and 67%. The corresponding cooling capacities ranged from 31 to 72 kW (8.8 to 20 tons)", ie about 1 ton per 100 square feet of roof area, ie 1 ton per square :-)
In the house "water [the refrigerant] is sprayed into an evaporator, evacuated to about 5 mmHg of pressure, where it immediately flashes into vapor... Cold water, pumped from the bottom of the evaporator, flows through a fan coil... that blows cool air into the conditioned space. The absorber acts as a vapor compressor and condenser for the system. Water vapor from the evaporator flows over the absorber where it is absorbed by the concentrated absorbent. The continuous absorption of water vapor maintains a low pressure in the system and permits flashing of water in the evaporator... The product of the absorption process, a weak absorbent solution, collects at the bottom of the absorber to be pumped [up over the roof] for concentration."
"The dilute LiCl solution was delivered to the collector surface through a spray header spanning the top of the roof and made from 50.8 mm (2 in) diameter CPVC pipe fitted with 35 evenly spaced brass nozzles. The concentrated solution collected at the bottom... in a PVC rain gutter, and returned via gravity feed to a 1608 l (425 gallon) fiberglass tank... In the event of of a rain, fluid flowing off the collector could be manually diverted to a 946 l (250 gallon) wash tank or to a roof drain. During the initial phase of the rain, residual salt would be washed from the roof and collected in the wash tank to be stored for later regeneration. After sufficient rainfall, the rainwater is diverted to the roof drain."
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On 9 Aug 2004 06:20:40 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Especially with Peltier units <g,d,r>
--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info
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