Mold Disaster

[hvsteve]

We had a furnace disaster that put four or five inches of hot water into our basement. The place was filled with stored items. The water was there for a day or two before being discovered. We cleaned up and threw out a lot of wet stuff but some months have gone by and we have a serious mold problem. We just had a specialist come in and we agreed that he drywall has to be removed and the place cleaned up. For a clean up,decontamination and sealing the walls we are looking at $23,000. Does this seem out of sight?

We also realize we have to throw out most of what is left down there. I have a large record collection and realize the cardboard jackets,though looking fine,probably have to go. Are the vinyl records inside also a lost cause,or can they be cleaned?

[zxcvbob]

I don't know what the "decontamination and sealing the walls" is supposed to be. You need to remove the wet drywall and insulation, and dry everything out, then repair the damage. The mold will die out if you can get it dry.

The LP's should be fine. Wash them with soap and warm water, rinse, and rinse again with distilled (or deionized or reverse osmosis) water.

Bob

[Bob K 207]

get a determination as to type of mold, most are harmless

Can you do any of the work yourself?

23k seems high but..........How big is the room? You probably only have to remove the lower 1/2 of the drywall unless it's all soaked. (rather doubt it)

What's your weather & ventilation like?

The problem came from not drying the place out fast enough.

How high up the walls does the mold extend? Is it patchy or 100% covered with dense growth?

If the mold is not the nasty kind, I would kill it with bleach solution, remove effected drywall. Probably easiest to remove lower 4ft, leave framing exposed for a a couple of days with fans & heaters.

Replace drywall using green board, use Thompson's water mix Set20 compund or equal (it's faster than having to wait for the regular mud to dry).

Prime with Zinseer & paint with washable latex (add some paint fungicide)

Make sure your ventilation is good!

The record jackets might be ok don't be too quick to dump them, place them somewhere with normal temp levels & low humidity. Records can be cleaned.

My friend had a record collection (300+) that got flooded out (sprinkler issue) when we were kids. We got fans going & dried them all out. We were in SoCal. Lost only a handful.

In the future never store anything (esp valuable items) directly on the floor, pallets can be gotten for cheap (or free).

Consider a water alarm. I had a similar thing happen about 20 years ago but stuff was on pallets & I heard the dripping before the water got too deep.

cheers Bob

[Speedy Jim]

I don't think anyone on here can judge whether that is a fair price without seeing the scope of the job. But...if the 23K were coming out of *my* pocket, I would have *my* atty writing the contract, not theirs.

It would cover in detail the scope of work and standards of mtl and workmanship. Stipulate contractor's insurance coverages. Completion date with penalties. And a guarantee of mold remediation, including after-completion mold testing. Mold still present at "X" level, no payment.

State whether contractor is responsible for city permits/inspection and completion to Code requirements.

23K is a lot of money if they are going to be there like 1 week and just slap a pickup truck load of drywall on.

Jim

[hvsteve]

The basement is about 50 by 30. The estimator says the black mold on the wallboard is the toxic type. I don't recall the scientific name. The wallboard is black about a third of the way up. There is also mold in a number of places around the basement.There are shelves of things that were stored down there. He claims anything we want to keep has to be cleaned and wood or paper items should just go. The previous owner built a room in the basement and,rather than replace the walls,flooring and,possibly studs,I would as soon tear it out and use the space for other things. He says the cinder block,painted walls show water damage and should be cleaned and have sealer,not waterproofing,sprayed on them. He made a big deal out of the process of bagging and removing everything so as not to spread the mold. The flood happened earlier this year but I did not put in an insurance claim as I figured I would collect for cleanup only and don't like to have a record as a "problem". Now,with the mold,I have contacted the claims department and am waiting to hear if they are going to send an adjuster. With the amount of money involved,I may also spring for a service that does mold and water damage inspections but not repairs.

[Rob Gray]

Sounds like a rip-off price wise, although I'm not expert. Some of these folks like to play up words like mold and asbestos and they figure you'll pay anything to be safe....

[observer]

Mold schmold. toxic schmoxic. no way I'd pay that kind of money. tear out ventilate, maybe a little clorox solution. If the walls need sealing paint on some of that concete sealer crap and your good to go.

[HaHaHa]

Of course he did. He could tell just by looking at it, right?

Waterproofing IS sealer.

Of course, for 23 grand he's gonna put on quite a production!

If I wre you I'd rethink this whole thing, now that you already got the insurance company involved and are willing to forgo the basement finish anyway.

I'd order a dumpster and get down there and simply tear out the sheetrock & studs and Insulation. Dispose of anything that can retain moisture unless you're really attached to it and can't bear to part with. Clean all the rest that cleanable, bleachable, and disinfectant-able.

Once gutted and cleaned out, use a 10% bleach solution and warm water on all of the walls, top to bottom, and the floor.

Then use fans to quickly dry out the space, and then run 1 or 2 de-humidifiers for at least a week, or until they stop producing water.

Mold cannot grow without the proper enviroment. Moisture. [e-mail]

[Joseph Meehan]

While I would not be certain that they told you true about the kind of mold it is possible that it may be dangerous. I suspect you are going to have a problem selling the house any time in the future if you don't have the problem professionally corrected. The insurance company should help you verify the first report.

[Joseph Meehan]

Be equally weary of both the contractor trying to sell you mold control and the Buba who tells you that it is nothing and just pretend that mold can not be a serious threat. The truth is somewhere between.

[zxcvbob]

"Stachybotrys" Here is some information about it:

If it were me, I would wear a respirator and goggles, rent a dumpster and a dehumidifier, and clean it up myself.

Bob

[MLD]

[Kathy]

JUST-- WHATEVER YOU DO---DON'T PUT THEM IN THE DISHWASHER!!!!!!!!

[Astro]

The U.S. EPA has a website specifically on mold without the hype:

Here is the key quotation: "There is no practical way to eliminate all mold and mold spores in the indoor environment; the way to control indoor mold growth is to control moisture"

They have extensive resources there that answer many of the questions flying around this discussion.

Many people are sensitive to mold spores because of allergies. I'm sure someone, somewhere has died from mold exposure. Likewise, I'm sure someone, somewhere has died due to ragweed allergies or cat dander. The current scare tactics being used to sell mold remediation services overplay the dangers to the vast majority of the population so that the lawyers and contractors can make a quick $$$. If mold were going to kill the OP and his family, it would have done so already. There's probably billions of spores floating around that they've breathed just by being around it.

Not to say I'd be cavalier around it. I would wear a good respirator, some rubber gloves, provide lots of veintillation, and remove all visible signs of mold. Toss all that wet and moldy garbage. As someone else noted, bleach is an excellent biocide. Very few organisms can survive when sprayed with bleach.

There's a bunch of scare sites out there that say "bleach ineffective at killing mold". They indicate this problem because it won't penetrate porous surfaces.

Then there's:

key quotation: "The study results confirm that denaturing the mold spores with a dilute chlorine bleach solution appears to be the most effective and efficient way to reduce mold allergen on hard surfaces."

As other posters have indicated, kill the surface mold and get rid of the moisture problem. Mold can't grow in the wrong (i.e. dry) environment. If you want to kill it deep into the surfaces, get one of the mold killing agents sold for that purpose.

good luck. Let us know your progress.

[trader4]

The first thing I would do is get the mold tested by a reputable lab to verify what type it is. Before giving you a estimate for $23K the contractor should have given you a lab report showing it to be a toxic and dangerous variety, eg stachybotrys. If he didn't, I would get rid of him immeadiately. I think there may be test kits available on the internet where you can take a sample yourself and send it in. No one can identify a harmless black mold from a toxic one without a lab test.

If it's not a toxic mold, then a lot of what is being proposed is, IMO, unwarranted. If it is toxic, then I agree with Joseph that it could be a real problem and should be handled by a professional. I'd also do some research on the web. I think the CDC has some good info too, explaining that in most cases, unless you happen to be allergic to it, mold is not a disaster.

[willshak]

On 12/29/2004 8:55 AM US(ET), [e-mail] took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

Home Depot has a number of test kits for various home environmental problems; Mold, Radon, etc. They have to be mailed in to some lab. I happened to see them in HD last week because they were displayed right at the end of an aisle. I don't know if Lowes has them, but I suppose they do. If so, I didn't see them when I was in there a couple of weeks ago, but I wasn't looking for them.

[default]

Which is Bubba's way of saying "I'm full of shit".

" Livestock have died from eating moldy feed and fungal infections can be fatal to humans, although this is rare. There is no specific mold that creates a life threatening situation by its mere presence."

Counterbalanced by the observation that ANY mold is an allergen, and adversely affects your air quality. It will make you sick, in sufficient quantity, but it will drive you out of the house long before it kills you.

--Goedjn

[Bubba]

Yes, I am saying that you are full of shit and a clueless asshole. So what else is new? Your own statement pasted below even proves mold can be fatal although rare. So are you saying you cant read or what? I think Id like to know if it was serious or not if it were in my home. You can die with your livestock for all I care. Bubba

[Alex Z]

Bubba wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Standards are standards and they should be followed or else risk being sued. As a businessman you are being very sensible in following them. However, these standards vary from industry to industry and state to state. With regards to mold many of these standards were created as a response to the mold *panic* of the late eighties early nineties. There is very little science to back them up.

As for your home being "warm, cozy and mold free," I take it you don't live in Houston, TX, because you it'd have to be a plastic bubble in order to make such a claim.

[JerryMouse]

Nope. Homeowner policies are written today to specifically exclude mold remediation.

Why?

Because there's mold everywhere and hysteria is catching.

Mold is the latest in a long line of nonsense: asbestos, silicon breast implants, global warming, carbohydrates.

Next year there will be something else to fear.

Paint over the shit and keep quite about it.