I'm looking into installing another bathroom (toilet, 2 sinks, shower, and tub) that will be about 55 feet horizontally, and 8 feet vertically, from my water heater (I've got a 60-gallon indirect water heater). Is that too far to run a hot water line? If it is, any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Mike Shapp snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com
You'll be waiting a long time for hot water.
and you would need to insulate the whole line so the water will still be hot when it gets there.
Do a google search for hot water recirc pump. It is located under the sink and the hot and cold pipes are tied together with a check valve between them. The pump slowly circulates the hot water through the pipes and you have instant hot water at the sink. the check valve prevents the cold system to become hot. My hot water heater is about 90 feet away from my master bath and the system works great. For a plumber to do the work cost is about $1200 but doing a google search can buy the pump for around $350 and hook it up yourself if you are handy. Muff
The biggest problem will be waiting for hot water. The smaller the pipe the faster you get hot water ( less volume) Code would probably call for a
3/4" feed, but with all these low flow fixtures 1/2" would most likely work. As mentioned a hot water circulating system would be ideal. You could run a 3/4" for the feed a 1/2" for return. You do not have to pipe right to the fixtures but the closer the better. You will want to insulate the pipe. The circulating pump is usually at the water tank. it also a good idea to install a timer so it is not constantly running. You could run the return line ( it would be a good idea) and then see if you really need a circ. pump if so add later. It might be feasible to do all the hot waters in the house while your at it.
I wouldn't go that far. We had a run almost that far in a house I lived in, and once the water got hot, it stayed hot. However, I have no objedtion to insulation, and the kind I'm acquainted with , a slplit foam rubber tube, is cheap. however it started to fall off the pipes after about 15 years, so maybe there is something better for the pipes that are hard to get to.
A continous on circulator pump wastes energy, some have a button on feature. See if you can put in a Ng tankless near the bath, but it is not to far a distance it will just take longer to get Hw. Insulate the pipes completly it will help, Pvc looses less heat then metal.
Another solution would be; A 2-1/2 gal local water heater. They sell for $150 at Home Depot.
About the size of a 2 gal Coleman jug. Mounts under-sink Plugs into a 120 v outlet
It would provide instant hot water for the sinks, and would provide shower hot ( mixed ) until the main heater hot water gets there.
yeah better a button to start the pump for say 10 minutes or just long enough to get nice hot water to the tap. with a auto off after X minutes you wouldnt lose much energy,
best to overinsulate the hot line, like foam around the hot feed and return the fill the entire stud cavatity with foam or fiberglass insulation. insulation is cheap, since its a one time expense.
PEX line might be better, being plastic it might not conduct radiate heat as much
I don't thin a small pump motor would waste allot of energy especially on a timer. I think pushing a button to start the pump is not solving the problem, your right back to ware you started. You just added a pump to push the cold water back into the hot water tank, you still have to wait for the cold to clear the system, kind of like opening the fixture and letting the cold run out. So all you have gained is the joy of pushing a button.
The energy wasted isnt just the electricity to run the pump 24/ its the heat radiated off the pipes. in the winter it helps warm your home but in the summer its just adds to your discomfort and AC bill:('
Here I have about a 40 foot n from tank to bath. I rarely wash my hands in warm water unless someone else was already using it. but do cold hands matter probably not. for me
dont want a cold shower though:( So I let it run a bit before getting in.
over the 50 + years this home has been here thats probably a LOT of water and gas wasted:( Although I havent lived here the entire time, just 33 year or so.
I would install the circulator pump with a button AND run always and timer setting. then use it however works best. if your showering a quick button press with a few minute wait while you get stuff together probably doesnt matter...
while waiting for warm water to wash hands might myself I would make do with chilly water at sink.
but a system with button, timer, or always on leaves the customer to decide whats best for them and can be canged accordingly
What's wasting the energy is not primarily the small pump motor. It's the heat loss from having hot water sit in the pipe loop 24/7. If I went with this type system, at the very least I'd have a timer to shut it down overnight.
I think the button type systems can be a good solution, though I haven't actually used one. It would seem you'd get used to it, much like turning on a light switch. If you do it as soon as you enter the bathroom, you can be doing something else for a min, while the water arrives. They also claim to get it there faster, because the pump is actively moving it.
Another interesting possibility would be to use an X10 motion detector to trigger it.
Umm, the comparitively small amount of cold water in the hot water pipe will not significantly impact the temperature of the water in the hot water tank. From the user's point of view, it will basically "go away". To wit: a 50' run of 3/4" type M pipe holds 1.34 gallons of water. If the water in the pipe has cooled to 40 degrees, and the hot water tank hold 40 gallons at 120 degrees, then putting that cold water back into the hot water tank will lower the tank temperature to
117 degrees.Cheers, Wayne
If you have a timer, to turn it off, how will you ever get it back on again if you don't have a button? What other method would know when to turn it on again?
one timer would be tied to the button, push button pump runs for 10 minutes or hot water has arrived at the fixture, however long that takes.
the other timer turns on at preselected times like in am before bathing then shuts off when no one is home , or unlikely to be using hot water.
you know it might be easier to move the bathroom for shorter line runs:)
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