machine oil smell from refrigerator

[franklin.macintosh]

I feel a little guilty asking again about machine oil smell from appliances . Well, here goes.

I rent an apartment which supplies a relatively new fridge (2009 maybe). B ut it has received knocks and shaking as it has been moved around quite a b it. I've recently noticed a faint machine oil smell that accompanies the v ented air coming from the fridge. It's no big deal initially, but after so me time, it seems to pervade the apartment, or at least I notice it everywh ere. Then the scratchy throat sets in. Harumph.

The fridge is an Eletrolux P/N 241857201. I opened the back and there is a warm compressor, a fan, and coils. There isn't much label information exc ept on the compressor: Embraco EM2Z 60HLT. There's lots of technical data online, much of which I can't interpret, and I'm not sure if it would help to troubleshoot the smell anyway

=190&idcat=9&idfam=18). From a simple visual inspection, there doesn 't seem to oil leaking either out of the fan bearings or the compressor.

Is it unusual to have a faint machine oil smell coming from the output vent air of a fridge? If so, I should just get over it and get use to the haru mphing. If not, would the cause typically be the fan or the compressor? I 'm not sure if it would necessarily be a leak that causes this, but if ther e was a small or slow leak, where would the best place be to check?

[nestork]

I like to think I know a fair bit about fridges, but I don't know what you mean by "vent". Is this an air duct on the back wall of the fridge with a baffle of some sort on it? Or are you referring to something on the outside of the fridge.

No, if there was enough refrigerant leaking out of that fridge for you to smell it, then the fridge wouldn't be working properly. Or, it would be getting very much worse even as you read this.

Three things:

1. In ANY fridge, the way to check the condition of the fridge is to look at the frost formation on the evaporator coils.

If this is a frost free fridge; that is, one with a separate freezer compartment with it's own door, then there will normally be a removable panel in the freezer compartment, and the evaporator coil will be behind that removable panel.

If the fridge is in good health, then you should see frost forming uniformly over the entire surface of the evaporator coil. Frost forming only at one end of the evaporator coil indicates a low refrigerant level (suggesting the possibility of a leak), or a worn out compressor, or both. Sometimes, the refrigerant charge will be so low that a "snowball" forms at the inlet end of the evaporator coil, and the rest of the coil is frost free.

Seeing a uniform development of frost over the entire surface area of the evaporator coil is proof that the fridge is in good mechanical condition.

1. People spill food in fridges all the time. It doesn't smell because the cold temperatures inside the fridge keep bacterial growth to a minimum. So, what you could be smelling is some food that was spilled in the freezer or fresh food section that seeped into the cabinet of the fridge and to the outside of the insulation where the warm temperatures would result in faster bacterial growth and more smell.
2. A frost free fridge is nothing more than a manual defrost fridge that has a system of defrosting itself every 10 to 20 hours. Frost free fridges have an electric heater in them that is positioned in close proximity to the evaporator coils. Once every 10 to 20 hours, power from the fridge compressor will be diverted to that electric heater to melt all the frost off the evaporator coils. The melt water then travels down a tube running down the back of the fridge to a receiving pan positioned above or around the compressor. The heat from the warm compressor then helps re-evaporate that melt water into the ambient air.

It could be that someone spilled some food in the freezer compartment. It's highly unlikely, but it could be that food somehow got onto that defrost heater and is burning every time the fridge defrosts itself. However, if that were the case, you would notice the smell only when the heaters were operating, which is for about 10 to 20 minutes every 10 to 20 hours.

3 1/2: If this "vent" you refer to is a duct running along the back wall of the fridge, it's purpose is to introduce cold air at the BOTTOM of the fresh food compartment so that the circulation pattern of that air through the fresh food compartment will keep the whole fresh food compartment at a uniformly cold temperature. Since that air comes from the area of the evaporator fan, it's possible that what you're smelling is a fan motor slowly overheating and burning the lacquer insulation on it's motor windings. If that's the case, the evaporator fan motor is near or at the end of it's life and would have to be replaced. If your fridge keeps cooling properly for the next coupla weeks, then it wasn't the evaporator fan burning itself up either.

Hope this helps.

[franklin.macintosh]

Hi, nestork,

Yes, I do have to explain this. I've never seen a fridge design like this before, but I assumed that it was because I'm a throwback from a bygone era . From my past, a normal fridge has an array of coils spread out over the back side.

This fridge is not like that. The back side is a solid wall. The coils ar e at the lower back corner of the fridge, and located inside of the rectang ular volume of the fridge. In fact, it is hidden by a removal portion of t he fridge's back wall. The coils are not spread out into a sheet, but stac ked into a 3D cube. The fan is located between the coil stack and the comp ressor. It draws air across the coil stack and pushes it into the compress or. The compressor felt much warmer than the coils, so even the the air is warmed by its initial pass over the coils, it is still usable to cool the compressor. All 3 parts (coil stack, fan, compressor) are located *within* the rectangular volume of the fridge, at the lower back corner.

All the air that is driven by the fan to cool the coils and compressor is v ented out the front of the fridge through openings at the bottom. How the air gets from the lower back part of the fridge to the front, I don't know. Some mechanical duct magic. And I don't know where the intake is either. I'll try to get at the back and take a picture.

Well it's a good sign that the deterioration hasn't been happening. I wasn 't worried about refrigerant, however. More about machine oil or lubricant .

It's a strange hour of the night right now, but I'll check tomorrow. As I said, I was more suspecting oil/lubricant just due to the smell.

Now this is something that I can respond to with confidence. It certainly isn't spilled food. I know some people whose fridge might be susceptible t hat, and my fridge is just the opposite.

I hinted that my fridge and freezer were very austere. In fact, the only t hings in the freezer are cold compress gel packs for sports injuries. The fridge section is quite austere and clean as well (but it does contain seal ed food stuffs).

I hope I have managed to clarify the the vented air is the air pulled by th e fan over the coils and pushed over the compressor.

[trader4]

s before, but I assumed that it was because I'm a throwback from a bygone e ra. From my past, a normal fridge has an array of coils spread out over th e back side.

are at the lower back corner of the fridge, and located inside of the recta ngular volume of the fridge. In fact, it is hidden by a removal portion of the fridge's back wall. The coils are not spread out into a sheet, but st acked into a 3D cube. The fan is located between the coil stack and the co mpressor. It draws air across the coil stack and pushes it into the compre ssor. The compressor felt much warmer than the coils, so even the the air is warmed by its initial pass over the coils, it is still usable to cool th e compressor. All 3 parts (coil stack, fan, compressor) are located *withi n* the rectangular volume of the fridge, at the lower back corner.

vented out the front of the fridge through openings at the bottom. How th e air gets from the lower back part of the fridge to the front, I don't kno w. Some mechanical duct magic. And I don't know where the intake is eithe r. I'll try to get at the back and take a picture.

sn't worried about refrigerant, however. More about machine oil or lubrica nt.

I said, I was more suspecting oil/lubricant just due to the smell.

y isn't spilled food. I know some people whose fridge might be susceptible that, and my fridge is just the opposite.

things in the freezer are cold compress gel packs for sports injuries. Th e fridge section is quite austere and clean as well (but it does contain se aled food stuffs).

the fan over the coils and pushed over the compressor.

I can't imagine where oil could be coming from in a fridge where you could smell it. As Nestork said if it were from the compressor oil, I would think the refrigerant would be gone in short order and it would not be working. Any small fans in it, well the lubrication is inside the bearings for life and I've never seen a modern small fan motor like that with an oil smell.

Any chance someone applied oil somewhere to it, eg to oil the hinges, or something?

[David L. Martel]

Frank,

As you've noticed your apartment contains more than one electric motor. So, if the smell of machine oil is bothering you and the sources of the smell are electric motors you need to determine whether the smell is real. Do guests or family complain about the smell? Can they locate the source? Does this aroma occur in other places (work? local shops? auto? bus?)? I'd consult with a physician about the scratchy throat and your perceived sensitivity to oils. I'm not writing you off as a loony but I'm starting to lean that way. How long have you had this problem?

Dave M.

[nestork]

Yes, Frank. Those coils are your CONDENSER coils. They perform the same function as the black coils normally seen on the back of a refrigerator. In that situation, those coils are cooled just be air convection. Your fridge has these coils at the bottom of the fridge, so they provide a "condenser fan" to provide the air flow to cool them. After the compressor compresses the freon gas to a high pressure, that gas then goes to the condensor coiles where it condenses into a liquid, losing heat as it does. The warmth you feel coming off those condensor coils is both heat from compressing the gaseous refrigerant, and heat released as it condenses into a liquid.

Don't worry about that. The factory would have made sure that cool air can get into where those coils are so that your "condenser fan" can blow that warmer air out at the bottom front of your fridge. It really doesn't matter where the air is coming from, because that almost certainly won't be the cause of a smell.

The refrigerant in a fridge's cooling system will carry an oil mist with it. If you ever puncture any of the refrigeration lines in an old fridge, you'll get a lot of refrigerant coming out, but you'll also see some oil come out with it.

So, the only thing I can imagine is that if there is a refrigerant leak, some oil will also come out with the refrigerant, and that may be what you're smelling.

But, if that's the case, then the fridge will stop working as the refrigerant escapes.

Maybe try and stuff some paper towels into areas you can't see to see if the paper towels get oil on them. When you have a refrigerant leak, all that appears to leak is oil because the refrigerant evaporates into a vapour, leaving only the oil mist inside it behind.

The only other thing I can think of is that if it wasn't a new fridge, it could be that there was dust on the condenser coil or condenser fan blades, and that perhaps that dist contained allergens that you are sensitive to, causing you to cough. If you have good access to the condenser coil and condenser fan, you might want to try unplugging the fridge and cleaning the coil and the fan blades.

Sorry I couldn't have been more help.

[franklin.macintosh]

nestork, trader4,

Thank you for your responses and the valuable information. It is quite hel pful.

I'm glad that you said it wasn't necessary to take a photo. I literally ha ven't had a chance to sit down and type since the alarm clock went off. So I haven't hauled out the fridge and removed the back panel to take a pictu re. Unfortunately, that also means I haven't been able to check for a remo vable panel in the freezer to see if there is uniform frosting. However, i t is a valuable nugget of info -- a checklist item. The next few days will be at the same pace as today, but I'll take a shot at first opportunity, a s well as trying the towel method of checking for oil.

I appreciate the clarification about the nature of the coils. I actually s urfed for fridge designs about 24 hours ago, and got the big picture, carto onish though it may be.

[Stormin Mormon]

Yes, Frank. Those coils are your CONDENSER coils. They perform the same function as the black coils normally seen on the back of a refrigerator. In that situation, those coils are cooled just be air convection. Your fridge has these coils at the bottom of the fridge, so they provide a "condenser fan" to provide the air flow to cool them. After the compressor compresses the freon gas to a high pressure, that gas then goes to the condensor coiles where it condenses into a liquid, losing heat as it does. The warmth you feel coming off those condensor coils is both heat from compressing the gaseous refrigerant, and heat released as it condenses into a liquid.

Don't worry about that. The factory would have made sure that cool air can get into where those coils are so that your "condenser fan" can blow that warmer air out at the bottom front of your fridge. It really doesn't matter where the air is coming from, because that almost certainly won't be the cause of a smell.

The refrigerant in a fridge's cooling system will carry an oil mist with it. If you ever puncture any of the refrigeration lines in an old fridge, you'll get a lot of refrigerant coming out, but you'll also see some oil come out with it.

So, the only thing I can imagine is that if there is a refrigerant leak, some oil will also come out with the refrigerant, and that may be what you're smelling.

But, if that's the case, then the fridge will stop working as the refrigerant escapes.

Maybe try and stuff some paper towels into areas you can't see to see if the paper towels get oil on them. When you have a refrigerant leak, all that appears to leak is oil because the refrigerant evaporates into a vapour, leaving only the oil mist inside it behind.

The only other thing I can think of is that if it wasn't a new fridge, it could be that there was dust on the condenser coil or condenser fan blades, and that perhaps that dist contained allergens that you are sensitive to, causing you to cough. If you have good access to the condenser coil and condenser fan, you might want to try unplugging the fridge and cleaning the coil and the fan blades.

Sorry I couldn't have been more help.

[franklin.macintosh]

I pulled out the back of the freezer and photographed the evaporator fins. While the frosting is anything but uniform, it doesn't seem to be biased t oward the top/bottom or the left/right.

Evaporator front view:

Evaporator rightward view from left side:

Evaporator leftward view from right side: http://i42.t> The refrigerant in a fridge's cooling system will carry an oil mist

I also shoved paper towel around the compressor & fan. No signs of oil. O n the fan, I tried to focus on the shaft/bearing area. On the Compressor, I tried to focus on the seam going around the compressor, as well as the in lets/outlets (whatever they are). Just for kicks, here are the photos befo re I wiped/vacuumed the area.

Compressor, fan, condensor, Front view:

Compressor:

Condensor:

Fan:

I guess I've done what I can. Thanks for your advice and for sharing your experience.

[hrhofmann]

es. Well, here goes. I rent an apartment which supplies a relatively new fr idge (2009 maybe). But it has received knocks and shaking as it has been mo ved around quite a bit. I've recently noticed a faint machine oil smell tha t accompanies the vented air coming from the fridge. It's no big deal initi ally, but after some time, it seems to pervade the apartment, or at least I notice it everywhere. Then the scratchy throat sets in. Harumph. The fridg e is an Eletrolux P/N 241857201. I opened the back and there is a warm comp ressor, a fan, and coils. There isn't much label information except on the compressor: Embraco EM2Z 60HLT. There's lots of technical data online, much of which I can't interpret, and I'm not sure if it would help to troublesh oot the smell anyway

=9&idfam=18). From a simple visual inspection, there doesn't seem to oi l leaking either out of the fan bearings or the compressor. Is it unusual t o have a faint machine oil smell coming from the output vent air of a fridg e? If so, I should just get over it and get use to the harumphing. If not, would the cause typically be the fan or the compressor? I'm not sure if it would necessarily be a leak that causes this, but if there was a small or s low leak, where would the best place be to check?

What about the smell, was it stronger, weaker, same????

[nestork]

Frank:

I looked at those pictures.

Check the top of the copper tube that makes a loop in picture 2dmf2p5. It looks kinda wet or oily at the top of that tube, but it might just be brazing flux. Maybe clean that tube with some mineral spirits to remove any residual flux, and see if it gets oily looking again.

The lack of any serious accumulation of frost on that evaporator suggests to me that the fridge finished a defrost cycle just a little while before you took those pictures of the evaporator. Maybe leave that replaceable cover off and take a look at the evaporator whenever you open the freezer compartment. You SHOULD be seeing a lot more frost on that evaporator than you see in the pictures.

There's an awful lot of dust on the condensor coils and the condenser fan blades. I'm wondering if what's causing you to cough is that you may be allergic to some of the stuff in that dust. If I were you, I would try cleaning the dust off the condenser coil and the condenser fan blades. (Obviously unplug the fridge when you're doing that work.) The worst that could happen is that your fridge would run more efficiently without that dust.

[franklin.macintosh]

Hi, nestork,

I didn't have much chance to follow up on all your advice, though I appreci ate it all.

The evaporator fins might have looked clean because it took a while to figu re out how to remove back wall, which was covering the evaporator. I ran i t for a while after removing the back wall, but apparently not enough. Sat urday (technically yesterday) I tried again but letting the frige run sever al hours before photographing the evaporator:

Evaporator front view:

Evaporator leftward view from right side:

Evaporator rightward view from left side:

Still quite clean, but no gross imbalances in frosting. I feel uncomfortab le leaving the back wall off for an extended period because there is actual ly a fan attached to it. It runs whenever the fridge is making "working" s ounds.

I also thoroughly prodded and "felt up" the top of the copper coil that loo ps. It looks wet and shiny, but there is no fluid or oil film. The fuzzy stuff at the top is the end of a 2-ply insulative sheath. The inner layer is porous yellow sponge while the outer layer is a film of plastic. It loo ks like someone applied heat to melt the filmy plastic, making the top of t he copper tube looke wet:

Top of looping copper tube:

While I did some superficial wiping of the dust on the coils and the compre ssor tubes, I admit that it could be more thorough. It's a bit tough to ge t around all the tubing an such, but I will give it a go tomorrow. The sme ll itself is an oily smell. I noticed it more earlier this week beause I h ad just returned from a visit to an abode in which such smells did not exis t.

Thanks again, nestork!

[nestork]

Well, Frank, I can't see any leaks in your refrigerant lines that might explain the "oily" smell.

I am seeing more frost formation on your evaporator, and it certainly doesn't look like most of the frost is forming at one end of the evaporator than another. So, I'd call that a more or less uniform frost accumulation.

From what I can see, there's no clear evidence that the freon charge on your fridge is getting low, and that means there's no clear evidence of any leak in the freon system. That in turn means there's no reason to suspect there's anything leaking out of that freon system, including an oil mist, so we're no further ahead than before. Sorry I couldn't have been more help.

I did see that the pipe with the loop in it cleaned up nicely and doesn't show any wetness now. I guess that oily film in the prior picture was just brazing flux left behind by the manufacturing process.

You said that the fan that blew air over the evaporator coil in the freezer was attached to the panel you removed. If that's the case, you should at least prop up that panel so that the fan is blowing air over the evaporator coils. Otherwise you''ll find that your fridge won't work properly until that panel is put back in place.

From what I can see, there's nothing seriously wrong with your fridge, and I have no idea what that "oily smell" is. Sorry I couldn't have pinpointed it's source. There's just nothing wrong in the pictures you're posting, except for the dented fins on the evaporator coil, and the dust accumulated on the condensor coil and condenser fan blades. Perhaps you could explain to your property management company that you're smelling an odd smell coming from the fridge, and ask if they can switch that fridge with one from the next empty apartment they have?

[franklin.macintosh]

nestork,

I appreciate the expert advice you've given me on this thread.

Understood that the oil smell cannot be coming from a freon leakage. That' s pretty well in line with your advice that such a situation would quickly lead to a nonfunctioning fridge, which hasn't happened.

I'll keep in mind your advice to talk to the landlord. I think I'm also ge tting use to the smell, since I'm noticing it much less. Maybe it seemed v ery pronounced simply because I was away from the apartment for a number of days.

Admittedly, that would not explain the source of the smell. I'm not dismis sing the possibility that maybe all machinery normally has some trace resid ue of oil, and I might be one of those people who are very sensitive to tha t. If that's the case, perhaps acclimatization solves the problem in cases where it is faint enough. I know that there are some less faint cases (fa n motors) where acclimatization just doesn't work. But that's a different story.

Once again, thanks.

[repairs]

You're the same idiot who complained about an oil smell from fans in recent posts. I suggest you stop using all electrical appliances, move to a natural cave, at least 100 miles from civilization, and concentrate your sensitive nostrils on smelling fecal droppings from raccoons, possums, rats, mice, birds, and other creatures.

[Gammer0]

If you still facing this problem than you should use best spray which is specially made for refrigerators, OR visit this site for getting every type of solutions relating to the refrigerator cleaning ('How To Clean a Refrigerator, Cleaning Out a Refrigerator'

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[andymhancock]

Thanks, Gammer0. I've done the cleaning, and poked around. It's not food related, it's very much a machine/oil smell. However, I think I've gotten use to it. I noticed it upon returning after being away for a while. Not sure if it's a *good* think not to notice it, but...well, you know, trying to deal with foremost things on the to-do list. Appreciate it, though.

[joseph.a.simons]

Hi Franklin, I have this same smell. I took off the back too, and the only thing I can g uess it might be is a square piece of rubbery material that is glued to the top of the compressor. I am assuming it is sound deadening, but with the h eat of the compressor it off-gases. I just bought my fridge (LG's GR-389RT) , and it is working great in every other way. But that smell! I think it mi ght void the warranty to pull that black patch off, and it might be louder too. Also, I'm just plain afraid to wreck something. Any comments? Joe