LOWES INSTALLERS - Fraud

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On 6/8/2014 10:53 AM, Nil wrote:

Google search results include Usenet posts. Click on the link and the post displays, but the Usenet newsgroup and date information aren't all that noticeable unless you read carefully. Click on the Reply button and if you're already signed into your Google account, you can post your reply without thinking any more about it.
Google makes it easy to be an idiot. I'm not being sarcastic. I recently took part in a discussion of a test of website functionality for researchers. To the utter frustration and despair of the people who'd spent all their time crafting the site, when it was live-tested it on average people, all but one of the test subjects ignored *all* of the research tools and links to still more tools on the site. Instead, they just went to Google, which led to all of them but the one who used the site failing the usability challenge. Since they weren't using the proper tools, they were unable to locate any of the information they'd been tasked to find.
Google is good for a lot of stuff, but it doesn't cover everything. Problem is, people are so habituated to it, they can't even spend five minutes looking at a site built specifically for finding information in order to select the best tool for the particular job.
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| I've never once seen them respond after their "necro-post". I don't | know how they found Google Groups in the first place in order to do it, | but I'm convinced that they are so clueless that they will never find | it again or see any follow-ups. |
Yes, that may be. There's a coincidental, similar thread going in another group. Someone recommended filtering GG posts. I don't have filters on my email program, and there are some legitimate posters using GG, anyway. That whole idea of "killfiling" never seemed like a workable approach to me. But I would like to understand better how these people [mis]understand what they're doing. It would be nice if some could be helped to understand the possibilities of Usenet.
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On Sunday, June 8, 2014 12:21:55 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:

OMG. What an inferior newsreader you have! No filters? Replace it immediately and get a real newsreader. What's wrong with you? Don't you know how newsgroups work?
and there are some legitimate posters

You can start a charity. I'll donate the first .01
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Mayayana wrote:

When it comes to Google Giggler's, you can't assume anything - especially figuring out how to post to usenet using something other that Google Gropes.

They know how to use a browser. Anything else (like a dedicated usenet client) is obviously a crap-shoot.

So, you're one of those that propagate bullshit info about AIOE I see.
I'll make the same challenge to you that I've made to others making similar bullshit claims: Post any evidence of "illegal activity". Post any evidence where someone has actually said that they block AIOE users at the User-Agent level.

AIOE is one of the most restrictive NNTP server's around. You can't cross-post to more than 3 groups, some hierarchies are prohibited from being cross-posted between, some groups are prohibited from being cross-posted to at all (almost anything pertaining to politics or scorched-earth). Anything posted by AIOE users is checked by URIBL for "banned" domains (prevents spammers from posting website URLS known to be commercial/spammy).
If you want to see true usenet abuse - google itself is legendary for allowing anyone to post anything, and is the spammer's choice for posting garbage (both commercial, fraudulent/phishing and malicious/malware).

Well maybe it's time to learn and understand the truth about AIOE and stop spreading FUD about it. For all it's restrictions (which I occasionally and unknowingly bump up against) I use it exclusively because no prior registration is required.
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| So, you're one of those that propagate bullshit info about AIOE I see. | | I'll make the same challenge to you that I've made to others making | similar bullshit claims: Post any evidence of "illegal activity". Post | any evidence where someone has actually said that they block AIOE users | at the User-Agent level.
I'm not taking a position about aioe. I'm neither for nor against their business or their operating model. I'm just not including it as a recommendation because a number of other people have talked about it being a problem. Were those people wrong? I don't know. From your somewhat nasty reaction I'm guessing there might be some sort of battle over aioe that I'm not aware of. I don't know the facts, and I have no way of deciding whether you or the others are more accurate. But if you have sources of neutral information about it I'd be curious to read them.
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I think a lot of them come from those cockroach "forums" that simply display usenet posts as their own forum posts...someone searchs Google for something, gets hits for the "forum" pertinent to his search and awaaayyy we go.
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| What nonsense. With a client based reader, eg Outlook Express, | one click and you're on a different newsgroup. With Goggle Groups, | one click and I'm on a different newsgroup. | | There are some difference. With GG, I can access it from anywhere. | I don't have to go figure out how a newsreader works, which one | I want, download it and maybe pay for it, install it, etc. And I | don't have to figure out which newsreader I'm going to connect to. | It's like using 20 year old technology and insisting that's the | only correct way of doing it.
Usenet is an entirely different protocol, nntp, not designed for webpage format (http). It's not "old technology".
I'm not going to keep arguing with you. You're taking this issue personally without cause. As I said before, if you want to use GG to post that's none of my concern. Many people find it challenging to use real email or to use a real newsreader. It requires some research and configuration. GG apparently works for you. But simply using GG is not the problem. The problem is that Google is corrupting the system by linking their other services into Usenet. In the way that they're doing it they're confusing people and causing problems. The result is that newsgroups get junk posts while the people posting that junk are missing out due to being misled by Google. (And some of those people might actually appreciate learning about how they could take part in Usenet.)
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On Sunday, June 8, 2014 12:51:47 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:

It most certainly is old technology, it's been around relatively unchanged for decades, while the world has moved to other technology. The other newsgrops I've followed over the years are dead, because people have moved to other ways of communicating.

It's with cause because you're bitching about GG, as if GG users are all the unwashed idiots. In fact, in the current case, there isn't any evidence that the post originated from GG. The poster is using a traditional newsgroup service, Flashnewsgroups, which requires a client newsreader. So, yeah I get annoyed when you start bitching about GG and don't know WTF you're talking about.
As I said before, if

So, why should they do that if all the want to do is make one post a year? Why do they have to use "real mail" if gmail works for them? You keep insisting that they should read tutorials, learn how newsgroups work, figure out which client newsreader they want, install it (maybe pay for it), figure out which newsgroup service they want to use (their ISP may not even offer it, so they may have to pay for that).....
Why in the hell should they do that to make a few posts a year? What a great way to get people interested in newsgroups. Your message is "Heh, idiot, don't post here unless you want to do it my way"
GG apparently works for you. But simply

Nonsense. They haven't linked anything else into GG.
In the way that they're doing it they're

The only one confused here is you because you're still bitching about GG when the poster made their post through Flashnewsgroups, which is exactly the way you're saying they should do it. Good grief.
The result is

Again just keep bitching about GG when this poster used Flashnewsgroups. And if they made a post through GG, they can of course see that post on GG. I see it. I can also clearly see the date of the old post that they chose to reply to. We're not missing anything.
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On Sunday, June 8, 2014 2:43:23 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
Oh, and another thing. Let's go through a typical scenario where someone might reply to an old thread, OK? Let's say someone with little or no newsgroup experience wants to know how to fix a garage door spring. They use google and find a thread from 3 years ago. Apparently most people have no problem with that and in fact I frequently see posters here tell people who start a new thread asking a question like that to go google and find the old ones. So apparently that's what they are supposed to do.
OK, so they Google and find a 3 year old thread. That thread has 25 posts that cover the subject. Lots of useful help, links to products, etc. So, what should this poster do now? I see two methods:
Mayayanna method:
They shouldn't post in that old thread. They should make a new post, and only with a client newsreader. So, they should go figure out what client to use, maybe pay for it, figure out which newsgroup service to use, maybe pay for that because many ISP don't offer it. Download and install the newsreader. Figure out how it all works and maybe read a tutorial on newsgroups. Load the newsgroup list, select the appropriate one, and finally start a new thread. Whereupon someone from here is likely to say, "Google for this, because it's been answered before......" And anyone that replies to this new thread, is starting from scratch, all over again, without benefit of the old thread.
My way:
They ask the follow-on question in the 3 year old thread. I see it on GG in context with the other 25 posts with all the previous suggestions, I can see what they're talking about. If I want to answer, I can give an answer based on what they obviously have seen and have not seen, without re-inventing the wheel. Apparently you can't do that, because your client newsreader doesn't even have the posts in the old thread.
Now, which way is more productive in answering the question, both for the person asking it and those that choose to reply?
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Google Giggler trader_4 wrote:

NNTP-Posting-Host: 74.90.130.159
No, you're not lost.
You're in Neptune Township, New Jersey. Farmingdale?
Are you on the east or west side of the Garden State Parkway?
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Mayayana wrote:

AIOE is run as a hobby. It's not a business.

Is it possible for you to point me to where you're seeing people discuss AIOE as you claim. ?

Those that have what they claim to be an informed opinion of AIOE vs, say, Maternal September are against AIOE only because it does not require registration to post, and they invent examples why it's a "bad thing" to run an NNTP server that way, and when pressed for examples of "bad" postings made using AIOE - they never do.

I can tell you that those that claim AIOE is used by abusers or spammers never end up posting examples to back up their claim, which can only mean they want to spread FUD about AIOE.

Just how or where would you expect to find neutral information about AIOE?
What you will find about AIOE (in alt.free.newsservers) is that AIOE runs an overly-tight policy with regard to accepting posts - much tighter than Maternal September. That alone should improve the reputation of AIOE with regard to being a (non)-source of usenet spam.
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Oren wrote:

See how you lie?
I've told you before that AIOE, if it does any tracking at all, it does so by IP address - NOT by what posting handle someone uses.
And AIOE's posting limit (which I think is 200 over 24 hour period) is not something that would form the basis or be included in Mayana's vague idea of what AIOE's reputation is in the minds of some people.
Even Maternal September allows unrestricted identity-changes between posts - using the same login user-name and password.

I'm asking again, and you will turn yellow and not answer, but I will ask again: Post an example of "what you've read".
As I've stated, Maternal September allows you to change identities at will, using the same posting account.
And again I dare you to post an example of "spam" posted via AIOE.
And contrary to your so-called popular belief, the use of multiple identities is not a violation of usenet protocal at any level.
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Bitching? Wait, let me look again....
Nope, I didn't see a single bitch from him, just some info.
--

dadiOH
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On Sunday, June 8, 2014 5:26:53 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:

Of course the poster is bitching. Bitching about people making a follow on post to an old thread. Bitching about people who don't use a client based newsreader. Who cares? And what exactly is wrong with responding to an old thread? Suppose 3 years ago someone asked for a solution to a problem, it was discussed and no one had the right answer. So, someone goes googling for the problem, finds the thread and gives the answer that no one had. Now anyone else googling will find it. What exactly is so bad about that? Is it better they just ask the question all over again, instead of people being able to see the original thread and what has been said so far? I can see it's an old post. I can see it in the context of the original thread. It doesn't compel me to start bitching about Google Groups, gmail, insisting that people need to use a client based newsreader, choose a newsgroup service, etc. just to make one post. And in this case, neither google groups nor gmail was used to make the post.
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| I think a lot of them come from those cockroach "forums" that simply display | usenet posts as their own forum posts...someone searchs Google for | something, gets hits for the "forum" pertinent to his search and awaaayyy we | go. | I've wondered about that. I know that a lot of fake forums repost newsgroups. But I've never seen an outdate post by anyone who wasn't using gmail, with their newsgroup name being their gmail email address.
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On Sunday, June 8, 2014 8:23:31 PM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:

Just look at the one you're bitching about right here, right now. It was not from gmail, idiot.
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On 6/7/2014 11:45 AM, andy mather rocam general contracting wrote:

Many good points above. In Nevada, workers comp went something like this: YOU, or your client formally requested that a copy of your insurance certificate be mailed to the client. YOU could not request a cert from WC be sent to anyone for anything. There was no such thing as a copy, and making a copy of a certificate was a violation of the law. The client had the original, with expiration date on it. The client heard directly from the WC people if you were a client in good standing with WC, that you were current and up to date, and gave an expiration date. The contractor could never get to touch the certificate when it was done properly. Any contractor who produced an insurance certificate was guilty of two crimes, one, possession of a fraudulent document, and two, violation of contractor law re: procedures for WC insurance certificates.
Good thing. Nevada was terrible for contractor fraud. Now, if you even OFFER to do the work, you are guilty. NO PROPOSAL OR CONTRACT is necessary as evidence. NO MONEY has to change hands, and NO WORK has to be performed. You can just verbally say it, and if the wrong person hears it, or a homeowner will sign a statement that you offered to do the work, you're ham is pretty much on the well done side.
I was a contractor for nine years, and did not have one complaint. You do things right, and you have no problems. Funny how that works, eh? Did several jobs for the government, and they didn't even require you have a business license or worker's comp. You're on federal land, and the rules of the unwashed rabble doesn't apply there. They do what they want. And those jobs were as sweet as you can get. They were very happy to have a competent supplier, and I was very happy to get 1.5 to 2x my usual prices, payment in about ten days. And no worries about the check bouncing.
Homeowners were something else. I mainly just did high end gravy referrals of intricate work. My gravy was for 275 apartment and condo projects. Did all of U-Haul's repairs from their rental trucks, all the damage the garbage men did, plus lots of local furniture and water companies who delivered and seemed to aim at the carports. It was sweet. Most homeowners just plain couldn't afford me, but would call back when their less than me bidding BIL, or someone new to the US left an unfinished mess. $95 an hour for a truck and two men, but, darn, just had two big government contracts come in, and looks like I can't do it for at least three months, more like six. Now the sweet taste of the low price bid is starting to ferment in the consumer's mouth, eh?
Steve
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| Just look at the one you're bitching about right here, right now. | It was not from gmail, idiot.
OK. How about slowing down a bit? You don't need to get into a carpetbombing tantrum, filling the thread with namecalling and insults. I haven't insulted you or sworn at you. Why are you so quick to be mean to people, calling people "bitching idiot"? (You also referred to the outdate-posters as idiots.) You're so worked up that you don't seem to be able to see that no one is attacking you in the first place. (As the psycho-babblers like to say: "It's not about you." :)
The point of all this, at least for me, is to see if there might be a good way to attempt reducing these dummy posts. That requires understanding how they happen in the first place.
I see you're right about the OP. That's interesting. I saw the top markers and didn't notice the posting source. The poster seems to be using flashnewsgroups.com, posting through something called Hermes. It's not clear whether that's real newsgroup software or whether the posting originated through a Web interface.
That still leaves the question of how this happens, which has me very curious. The only scenario I can imagine is someone with web-groups coming across an online reprint and of a posting and then perhaps having a browser plugin that misleads them into thinking it's part of an active forum and letting them post to it. No one seems to know the answer to that mystery. I don't see how anyone could mistakenly post to a years-old thread through actual newsreader software.
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On Monday, June 9, 2014 10:45:50 AM UTC-4, Mayayana wrote:

"I decided to come up with a sort of template response, in hopes of helping some of the people lost in Google Groups to understand the landscape.... and save the rest of us some trouble in the process."
Yes you did. I'm not lost in Google Groups. The post was not even made with GG and I'm sick of listening to you tell everyone how they have to use newsgroups. Who appointed you net cop?
What a welcoming message. Someone makes a post and they get your template response: You shouldn't use GG. You're doing it all wrong. You should read a tutorial on newsgroups. You should figure out what client you want to use, download it, maybe pay for it, install it. You should figure out what newsgroup service you want to use, maybe pay for that too. Then you should figure out how all that works, so you can make the one and only post you care about for this year or maybe forever. And to top it off, they get that response, even thought they have used a conventional newsgroup service, ie Flashnewsgroups.

If the shoe fits, wear it. In this case, here you are bitching about Google Groups when the post you're bitching about was made from a conventional newsgroup service, exactly like you're recommending.
I never referred to someone as an idiot because they responded to an old post. Now if they make some rambling post that doesn't make sense, then they may be idiots. And definitely some of those fall into that category. But so do plenty of contemporary posts, particularly the many OT posts that some hacks start here every day.
You're so worked up that you don't seem to be able

It's about you claiming that GG is the problem, when the post wasn't even made from GG. I pointed that out to you, politely but instead of acknowledging it, you just drone on.

I see, so it's OK for you to call a post "dummy", but if I call you an idiot, for blaming GG, when the post wasn't even from there, that's different. Go figure. I don't think that someone restarting a 3 year old thread automatically makes them a dummy. Again, as I've explained to you, what's better? Someone making a fresh post, asking the same question that was answered 2 years ago? How much of everyone's time is then wasted answering the same questions all over again? I've seen people here tell posters that start such a new thread to use google and search for existing threads, because it's been answered. If you re-start that older thread, where all the previous advice on the same question is there for all to see? At least I can see it. And it seems to me better than starting a new thread, asking the same thing all over again, yet you obvioulsy have a major problem with it. And even worse, you keep slamming GG, when the post wasn't even made from GG. It sounds to me like your old client-based newsreader doesn't show you the historical thread like GG does. Yet somehow that makes GG bad?

Maybe you should figure all that out before you start bitching about and blaming Google Groups.

You seem to think the fact that your newsreader doesn't let you see that thread history is a great advantage. I say, it's not. With GG I see the thread. And at least some of these folks that are re-starting old threads even acknowledge that they know the post is old. So, they add to an old post. So what? At best they add something and the next person that searches for "how to fix garage door spring", will see it. At worse, if you don't like, it just skip it.
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Mayayana posted for all of us...
And I know how to SNIP

+100
--
Tekkie

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