Lowe's blows

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Unless Lowes made the product, the title of your thread is wrong.
Fixed it for ya.
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On 08/04/10 6:20 AM, Sanity wrote:

While small claims court will limit your damages (with the limit depending on your state), you're probably better off because neither side can have a lawyer. You'll have to pick either the manufacturer or Lowe's to sue in small claims, not both. I'd pick the manufacturer. A judge is likely to rule against you if you sue Lowe's because they will say that you should know not to believe anything an employee of the store says about any product. Also, the manufacturer is unlikely to show up at all, and you'd win by default, though collecting could be difficult.
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. A

That's one of the most foolish statements I've heard. A sales associate represents the store. If he lies or misrepresents the store is responsible for it. Just think. Go in and buy a shovel and the associate tells you that that shovel will shovel your walk without you even holding. it. They'd sure sell a lot of shovels but the next morning there would be a lot of screaming customers out there. A representative of any company is exactly that, a representative and/or agent.
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On the other hand, everyone should know that the typical person on the floor of the big box stores is hardly an authority on anything. They can point you to the aisle for a product, but I think expecting them to be a technical expert on the effects of a particular product on concrete is pushing it. And you can't prove what the guy actually said, can you? But even going by what you say he told you, I don't see it as helping you much, if at all:
"I asked the associate what the difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should be sealed".
So, you read the label and it indicated it was OK for your application and it must have been consistent with what the floor guy told you or you would not have used it. Did it have the same melting ingredient that you bought previously or not? The whole idea of "what they used to carry" is very vague. It's not unusual to find stores like this carrying various brands at various times. Both you and the floor guy could be right. It could be the same melting ingredient as stuff he saw sold at times in the past and different from what you happened to buy. Proving any of that is very problematic.
It would seem to me that you are on much firmer ground going after the manufacturer of the product.
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You keep pushing the point. When I went to the store to complain, I pointed the associate out to the manager. The associate told the manager exactly what he said which coincided with what I said. No matter what you think of the store's associates, they mostly know the store policies and usually know about the products in their aisles.
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You must have very different guys working in the Lowes in your area than here. In my experience, at any of the big box stores, it's more common to find them anywhere from clueless to somewhat helpful. Sometimes you find a really good guy, but it's more the exception.
I guess I'm still waiting to hear what it is that the sales associate or Lowes did that was wrong. All you say he told you was that the product in question was the same as "what they used to sell", except that it has sand added. What exactly did the product contain? What did the "product they used to sell", which could itself be multiple things, contain? Can you show that the particular compound is not suited to the application?
You can sue anyone you want. But it seems most people here don't think Lowes is at fault.
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On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 11:15:24 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

The question here is, Is the store responsible for the man's mistakes in labeling, like the man is. If I ever knew, I can't remember this particular question.
A good quesiton for misc.legal.moderated I think.
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Re Re: Lowe's blows:

Seems to me that you have a good case.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

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On 08/04/10 10:32 AM, Sanity wrote:

Suit yourself. I'm just telling you where you'd have the most chance of getting any restitution. You have a very weak case, but it's possible that the manufacturer would offer you something just to get rid of you, but Lowe's is unlikely to settle.
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Bad example. There is a point at which the customer is not supposed to believe everything he's told. Read about "puffing".** Or maybe he can believe it but he can't base a claim on it. Pretty sure it would cover a statment that you don't have to hold the shovel.
**This might relate to used car ads that claim the car is a cream puff, whatever that means. It might only apply to second hand, but I think your example, don't have to hold it, would be included even for something new.
But you're right about your real life case.
A lot of people think they can't subpoena people to small claims court. I think in most or all states you can. If in your complaint you quote the guy and the store doesn't bring him they probably won't blame you for his not being there, but how much they will believe you about what he said without his being there to x-examine, I don't know. The wrapper on the stuff is more imporant and bring printed evidence like a paid bill that says "driveway sealed" to prove that. If you did it yourself, maybe you have at least a log entry in your company's project schedule.
What you say IS evidence, but it helps a lot to have printed evidence. If you seem to lie or fudge and he is convinced you have, the judge is entitled to consider eveytthing you say to be false. Of course the same peroblem for the store.
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That varies from state to state.
The OP said he's living in NC. According to <http://www.consumeraffairs.com/consumerism/small_nc.html , lawyers are allowed in NC.
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they really don't.

I guess my 1st question would be what do you want? Second: are you going to subpoena the associate? Because you can't use hearsay. You'll have to prove that your cement wasn't at fault. It was a colder than avg. winter and it may have had something to do with it. I doubt you'll be able to assess any damage to Lowe's without a deposition or court appearance from the associate. The product's instructions and disclaimer is what you'd be more likely to use in court. Be prepared to furnish proof your cement isn't to blame; partially or completely. Actually, what Lowe's told you is correct. The associate probably wouldn't be able to assess any liability to Lowes because he would only be expected to tell you what is stated on the product. See? It always goes back to the product. Personally, I'd take Lowes out of the loop. Your proof is the product's instructions and any disclaimer. Maybe you'll get lucky and the co. lawyers will make you an offer. If you go to court....I donno.....do your homework. They will throw it back on you.
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Sanity wrote:

The key words are 'do not use on concrete' stop right there and put it back. Have fun proving your claim.
--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........
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When I see that subject line. I think of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood and him singing "Everything grows together, because it's all one piece."
In the Lowe's blows, everything blows together, because it's all one department store.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
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Sanity wrote:

An agreement to which you're not a party.

I'll bet some lawyers will argue that sellers can be held responsible for products they sell when they don't explicitly say otherwise. Also the fact that a Lowe's employee said the new product was the same as the old, except for the addition of sand, may be the key to getting Lowe's to accept responsibility.
When I lived within walking distance of a Lowe's and a Home Depot, I did 90% of my shopping at HD because Lowe's employed a much worse class of morons. Example: one summer, it took three Lowe's employees to find where the air conditioners were located. OTOH when I asked a HD employee in the garden equipment dept. for a funny electrical switch, he told me not only which aisle at the opposite end of the store had it but also how high off the floor it would be.
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larry moe 'n curly wrote the following:

Well, that's good enough for me. I'll only shop at your HD because every employee knows where everything in the store is located.
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
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We had the same problem with that stuff at work. Problem is it damaged just some section of the concrete, pieces that had been replaced at one time, and not others. This would indicate that the quality of the concrete, sealer, or workmanship was also involved. Lots of luck with sorting it all out. I put out 10,10,10 fertilizer before it freezes over. Melts the ice, doesnt hurt anything. If I dont get it out in time I just put it over the ice for traction.
Jimmie
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That's between Lowes and the manufacturer. It has little or nothing to do with you. You have a relationship with Lowes. It's called privity. Whether you have such a relationship with the man. I'm not sure, but I know you have it with Lowes. And btw, Lowes does business in your state and is thus easy to sue.
If Lowes has an agreement with the man. that they must assume liability, like he says, when lowes pays you or loses to you, depending on what situations the agreement covers, the man must reimburse them. Maybe this guy went to a meeting or read a memo, but he doesn't understand law.

In fact they warranty every product they sell, whether he admits it or not. Stated warrantees are iirc limitations on the common law warranty. Everything is warranted to be suitable for the normal use for which it is intended. Something like that.
Either he has no knowledge of the law or he is trying to bamboozle you. The other side, and the other side's lawyers will often, probably usually try to convince complainers that they have no case.
Don't take legal advice from the other side.
If you don't complain higher up, and don't sue them, I hope you got his name so you can call him back and explain how ignorant he is on these two points.
P&M because it's been 3 days in a busy group.

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