Lowe's blows

[Sanity]

I have been a homeowner, mostly up North for the past 50 some odd years. My family is in the construction business so I know a little about building and maintenance. I have used Ice Melt on my driveways and steps for many, many years without a problem. I know not to use rock salt as that would deteriorate the concrete. I live in North Carolina now. For the past five years I've purchased Ice Melt from Lowe's and have not had one problem. This year they had a product called "Ice Melt and Traction". I asked the associate what the difference was from what they used to carry. He told me it's the same with sand added to give better traction. I read the label very carefully. It said "Do not use on concrete that is less than 1 year old or not cured. Concrete should be sealed". Well, my concrete is 5 years old, cured and not only is it sealed, I sealed it with product recommended by Lowe's. As you can guess, the concrete flaked. I went to the manager at Lowe's and he instituted a claim. The manufacturer denies any responsibility. Lowe's sent them a 'demand' letter stating that according to their agreement the manufacturer must assume liability. I didn't hear for awhile so I called Lowe's back. In a nasty tone I was told by their office that Lowe's does not warranty any products they sell and is not responsible. All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. I asked if this was their policy on everything they sell and they said 'yes'. I will be taking them and the manufacturer to court. Whether I win or not is not important at this point. I just want everyone to know that when Lowe's tells you to email " [e-mail], they really don't.

[DerbyDad03]

re: "All they'll do is refund the money I paid for the bag of ice melt. "

...and institute a claim and write a demand letter to the manufacturer.

What else do you want them to do? Do you think that they are responsible for the flaking of your concrete?

The following information is available on their website. Yes, it is written for the website, but I'll bet if you searched enough, you could find similar words regarding the products sold in their stores. Bottom line: Lowes doesn't warranty what they sell, the manufacturer does. The last 2 sentences clearly state their policy.

*** Begin Included Text ***

Product Information and Warranties

At Lowe's we carry the Brand Names You Know and Trust(c). Unless indicated otherwise, most products and services featured on the site are available directly from or through Lowe's. Lowe's has made a conscientious effort to display and describe its products and services on the site accurately so that you can get a good idea of their design and use, and of the services offered. Furthermore, Lowe's is constantly improving its information, products and services.

Consequently, Lowe's cannot and does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of the information, including prices, product images, specifications, availability and services. Products and services are the responsibility of the manufacturer or provider of those services and are covered by the warranties offered by such manufacturers or providers.

*** End Included Text ***

[George]

Sure, those are the legal weasel words used by big box but that doesn't mean they hold water. Anyone can declare anything about why they aren't responsible for something. The end result depends on how much more money you want to give to lawyers.

[Frank from Deeeetroit]

If you pursue a civil lawsuit, do not accept any refund for the product you purchased. Lowes may argue that upon your acceptance of a refund, you are satisfied of the issue, and Lowes has no further responsibility in the matter.

[Sanity]

This is the first communication Lowe's sent me a copy of. This they sent to the manufacturer. I read it that the terms they have makes the manufacturer responsible. Then Lowe's later denied it. They also refused to send me a copy of their merchants agreements but my lawyer will get it.

"I direct your attention to the Master Standard Buying Agreement, executed between your company and Lowe's. Please refer to Article V, WARRANTIES AND GUARANTEES, sec (5) which contains the following indemnification agreement. Pursuant to this agreement your company is responsible for this matter. Your company is responsible to Lowe's for the defense and indemnification of any and all claims, including expenses and legal fees resulting from this matter. Lowe's will exercise all available legal remedies to enforce this agreement Failure on your part to respond to this may result in additional expenses, as well as legal action being taken against your company. Lowe's therefore demands immediate acceptance of this claim in writing. If you have any applicable liability insurance coverage for this matter, you should immediately place your insurance carrier on notice."

[Jeff The Drunk]

I don't believe you. If the concreate was sealed properly it wouldn't be affected. If you applied the ice melt outside of the life of the sealer it's your fault.

[willshak]

Sanity wrote the following:

Was the second person you talked to, the same manager? If not, the second person probably doesn't know the company policy on claims. Contact the manager again and ask what is going on. You can't condemn a whole company for one person's remarks.

[trader4]

I'd be interested in hearing how from a practical standpoint he plans on suing Lowes and the manufacturer of the product. Among the obvious problems, the manufacturer is typically located someplace far away. Don't you have to sue them in the jurisdiction where they are located?

And regardless, for what you MIGHT recover, it would seem to me that your going to pour a lot of money down a rat hole trying. I seriously doubt any attorney is going to take this on a contingency. Then, you need expert testimony that the problem in fact is attributable to their product as opposed to your incorrect use of it, sub standard concrete, etc.

If the product is defective, I'd say that unless you can prove Lowes knew about it, that they are not responsible. The manufacturer is. Personally, if the bag had warnings about not using it on concrete less than a year old or concrete that is not sealed, I would not have used it on ANY concrete that I was concerned about from a cosmetic standpoint.

[ransley]

Was It "Lowes" Ice melter brand, or another company, if it isnt Lowes you wont win you need to go after the other copmpany.

[George]

I think he is dealing with a big box (low) quality product and may actually have a case.

Last winter we had freezing rain late in the winter and I ran out of ice melt. I happened to be driving right by a home cheepo so I figured I would get a small bag. Usually I get it from an evil mom & pop place but that wasn't anywhere near where I was traveling.

I went in and they had a pallet of bagged "super ice melt" that declared on the packaging that is was "safe for concrete over a year old". I looked at the tiny ingredients list and noted that it was mostly NaCl. If you want to destroy concrete sodium chloride is a great way to do it. I found someone and asked if they had a quality ice melt product that was just pelletized calcium chloride and he said they only get a small amount in and the "super ice melt" was cheaper.

I called the evil mom & pop place and they said they still had stock of the pelletized calcium chloride ice melt. It was actually less expensive than the home cheepo "super ice melt" for the same weight but since it is much more efficient than rock salt it is equivalent to maybe two or three bags of "super ice melt".

[Sanity]

You can believe whatever the hell you want. As I previously said, my family is in the construction business and we handle concrete continuously. My driveway was sealed twice in five years.

[Sanity]

You can sue in Small Claims court. As long as one of the defendants is from this jurisdiction it will be heard here and the manufacturer would be served by the sheriff and he has to send a representative. Small claims here is $5000. Repairing my driveway will be about 1500 to 2200.

[George]

Likely you didn't notice you are replying to someone who calls themselves "Jeff the drunk"...

[Sanity]

Spoke to two different managers in two different stores. Spoke to Lowe's insurance company, SRS and they initially told me the manufacturer was responsible and that Lowe's had a signed contract stating that.

[mike]

Unless Lowes made the product, the title of your thread is wrong.

Fixed it for ya.

[SMS]

While small claims court will limit your damages (with the limit depending on your state), you're probably better off because neither side can have a lawyer. You'll have to pick either the manufacturer or Lowe's to sue in small claims, not both. I'd pick the manufacturer. A judge is likely to rule against you if you sue Lowe's because they will say that you should know not to believe anything an employee of the store says about any product. Also, the manufacturer is unlikely to show up at all, and you'd win by default, though collecting could be difficult.

[DerbyDad03]

't.

Isn't that eaxctly what the warranty terms I found at the Lowes site state?

If the insurance company told you the same thing, why do you think you have a case against Lowes?

[Sanity]

Did you bother to read the paragraph I posted? It's from the contract manufacturers sign with Lowe's. They must offer a warranty or guaranty and Lowe's will enforce the contract.

[trader4]

How do you repair flaking concrete and restore it to it's previous condition for $2K? I can see how you can power wash it and re-seal it, but unless the driveway is huge, that should be less and it doesn't fix the chipped look.

[Sanity]

. A

That's one of the most foolish statements I've heard. A sales associate represents the store. If he lies or misrepresents the store is responsible for it. Just think. Go in and buy a shovel and the associate tells you that that shovel will shovel your walk without you even holding. it. They'd sure sell a lot of shovels but the next morning there would be a lot of screaming customers out there. A representative of any company is exactly that, a representative and/or agent.