Low-flow toilets

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What's the point of these California low-flow toilets if you have to flush them four times and use a plunger each time?
And please spare the jokes. I'm actually interested in a practical solution to the problem. Is there a way of overcoming the state-required low-flow mechanics, at least enough to get reasonable flow?
Jim Beaver
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:21:15 GMT, "Jim Beaver"

I spent the extra money for a pressure assist toilet. Made all the difference in the world. It's noisier, but you get used to it quickly. I'm in the high desert, btw. And I only flush once. Maxi
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Jim Beaver wrote:

The best solution is to get a good one. Like all products the cheap ones just don't work as well as a good one. Note: price does not always indicate quality. The builder specials sold with new homes are just not made to work well.
The two most important factors that are easy to check are a fully glazed trap (that means the pipe stuff goes out is as shinny and smooth as the part you see, otherwise it is the consistency of very rough sand paper; very good at stopping up things. The other is the size of that opening. Look for a minimum of 1 3/4" two inches is better.
The cost of these two improvements is not much, but since few people know to ask about them, they are not included on even some very expensive (fancy looking) models. Other differences like the design of the water passages etc. also make a difference, but are difficult to define.
Many people have been very happy with the American Standard Cadet models. Remember that there are a number of different Cadet models, check the specs.
For real problems there are pressure flush models. They are more expensive and often cause more noise, but they do work well.
You may want to take a look at some old Consumer Reports magazines at your library as they have done reports on them.
As for what you have, some people have luck working with what they have.
Most will flush better if you hold down the handle as that generally gives more water.
Cleaning the water outlets around the top of the bowl may help if they have been clogged up.
Adjusting the float and/or shutoff valve may also help. The procedure depends on your make and model.
Good luck and many happy flushes
--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:21:15 GMT, "Jim Beaver"

I have a Sterling 1.6 GPF. I asked a plumber because we were frustrated too, and he said this was pricier than most (maybe $130) but he told me they work well and they do. We had a pseudo low flush, but it was worthless. I think you would be pleased with this Sterling.
aloha, Thunder http://www.smithfarms.com Farmers & Sellers of 100% Kona Coffee & other Great Stuff
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Kohler's Wellworth model has a good reputation, and the Japanese Toto's are supposed to be excellant. Some of the eariler (and cheap current models) were less than effective at times. A Power flush mechanism (while noisier and having more parts) may also help. There may also be issues w/ the venting of the horizontal runout to the vertical stack, a 3" line may do better than a 4" line at keeping solids from settling with the reduced water flow, but start w/ a good modern 1.6 flush unit.
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The Masked Marvel wrote:

I bought a Kohler too. I was told by a contractor that Kohlers were the best. Home Depot agreed. I bought one. It works fabulously. Better than my high-flow toilets actually!
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My problem toilet is a Kohler. Brand new. High end. With a nice decorative bulge on the front of the tank cover that prevents the lid and seat from staying in the raised position. Well, what do you want for seven hundred bucks?
Jim Beaver
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THe good Kohler with a Sloan valve is only $275 but not pretty.
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You might want to call Kohler. Could be defective. They do give support.
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I have a Kohler Wellworth toilet and as noted through out the thread it works just great. Just a comment--Sterling is part of Kohler--got one of their Neo-angle showers and couldn't be more pleased. MLD
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Jim Beaver wrote:

You may be trying to solve the wrong problem.
Your dilemma is a prime example of government agencies working at cross-purposes.
The people in the health-end of the government tell us to eat more fruits and vegetables; the EPA types tell us to conserve water by using low-flow toilets.
But fruits and vegetables result in a high percentage of "floaters." The "floaters" take several flushes to empty the bowl but the "sinkers" go away on the first flush.
Eat meat. Eat a lot of meat.
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Or get an American Standard Cadet. And stay vegetarian.

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JerryMouse wrote:

I thought that "floaters" were from a high-fat diet and "Sinkers" were the result of a lot of fiber in the diet.
--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa
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Partially. Floaters tend to be from high fat content, such as quick passage due to high fiber. So the best way to keep from breaking down all the fat from French Fries is to have high fiber at the same time.

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On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:21:15 GMT, "Jim Beaver"

far better than any toilet I have used in the past as long as you realize that for a full flush, you need to hold the handle down. If you do, it never requires a second flush or a plunger. Flipping the handle when only a light flush is needed works well too and hardly uses any water.
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Alan wrote:

My Kohler works great either way. Even a quick hit on the handle and it flushes everything. I'm more than pleased with it.
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I have 2 Kohler Wellworth Lite toilets that we installed 6 or 7 years ago when we remodelled the bathrooms. They are crappier than what goes in them. Even after I "adjusted" them to about 2+ gal./flush (which helped) they still require plunging regularily. All the praises of the Kohlers in this newsgroup makes me wonder how many models of the Wellworth Lite Kohler has made. Based on my experience alone I'd never buy anything with the Kohler label again.
Roger Grady snipped-for-privacy@comteck.qlfit.com To reply by email, remove "qlfit." from address
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I bought two Toto models (Toto Drake and Toto UltraMax) after researching these.
I've never had to use a plunger on these (over three years now.)
Toto doesn't have the best customer service, to be sure, but I've hed only minor trouble so far (like the fancy $50 seat which comes with the ultramax breaking).
If you get the Drake, look for the ADA height - they say it flushes a bit better, since the tank is a bit higher. Of course, I wouldn't know the difference - since I only bought the ADA height model.
Sundeep

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Get one with a Sloan pressure flush valve. Kohler and Gerber both carry models with it. Not only does it flush well but it cannot overflow because it stops flushing if it feels backpressure that it cannot handle.

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Jim Beaver wrote:

We have a pressure flush toilet and have no problems at all with it. There is no way that I would consider anything else.
--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. - Mother Teresa
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