Looking for facts about fires caused by compact florescent bulbs

[dpb]

Superficially, maybe. Fundamentally, not so much...

If the concept of pollution credits is such an anathema to you, join with a like-minded group or organize your own and recruit folks to come along to the party. Develop a proposed legislative solution, understand _thoroughly_ the issues on _both_ sides (although in reality there are probably twenty faceted sides to any real issue rather than just the simple-minded good-versus-evil viewpoint you seem to espouse), draft some proposed legislation and get some support from your local representative(s) to introduce it.

Lots and lots and lots of work you say? Yeah, sure. Likely to happen next week even if you did? No. But, that's the way the system works. Takes money to get to DC to talk to other congressional representatives other than when you can buttonhole yours at the local townhall meeting? Ayup, lots of it. That's why you're gonna' need a bunch of folks to join the movement. Gonna' get fought tooth and nail by the coal and utility industries? Most likely; they've got a stake in your plan, too. Find some allies? Also, quite probable. "Win" totally in the end by completing eliminating the pollution credits market? Unlikely, but if you can make a strong enough case you might realistically expect to get some changes that make some differences in areas you like. That's known as "compromise" and is how the present state came to be. Welcome to Washington, Mr. Smith... :)

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[JoeSpareBedroom]

I already do these things.

I'm still curious where you got the idea that corporate favors don't exist. You don't actually believe that campaign contribution laws are the be-all and end-all, do you?

[dpb]

Well, good.

"Corporate favors" as you call it is simply the exercise of the above process. Like it or not, it's the way things get done. Ideal? No, not necessarily. Are there some crooks? Certainly. Are the bulk of the elected representatives "on the take"? No, for the most part they're just ordinary people trying to do the best they can between competing viewpoints. On occasion politics gets in the way of common sense, but that again is part of the process.

[Kurt Ullman]

And the Sierra Club and others with an environmental bent just toss money at Congress Critters for the exercise. Still influence and access is a long way from bought and paid for.

[dpb]

Oh, but "that's different"... :)

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[JoeSpareBedroom]

I freely admit to using a double standard here because I've never been poisoned by legislation suggested by an environmental group.

Alternative response: If politicians expect incentives, then everyone has to play by their rules. I doubt many legislators get into the game just for the salary.

[dpb]

Ah...what was obvious is admitted at long last... :)

Again, the bias and impugnment of motive thing. It's clear you don't know very many (any?) of even your legislators personally. If you did, (with a very few exceptions) I expect your personal respect for them would change drastically even if you didn't agree with their position taken on some particularly piece of legislation.

I suppose here's a good time to confess and let this pointless squabble die... :)

Since retirement from active consulting several years ago, one of my ways to "keep a hand in", so to speak, has been with local State Representative who happens to be Chairman of State House Committee on Energy and Chair of an Governor's Committee on Transmission and Generation and also recognized as a leader in energy policy and legislation at a national level. In this process, one soon learns how very much the reality of how stuff happens "behind the scenes" differs from the public perception and that it's mostly drudgery and lots and lots of hard work combined w/ seemingly endless committee meetings, hearings, position papers, meetings, hearings, ...

And that's all I have to say about that. :)

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[Kurt Ullman]

Been thrown out of a job? Have around $5000 added to the cost of house? Etc. etc. etc.

This is somehow news?

[jJim McLaughlin]

First Joe admits hes a slimy bastard with a set of double standards and then he yet agan engages in broad brush smears and accusations of criminal behavior without a scintila of evidence.

Bye Joe. Neither youu personally, nor anything you post on any topic have the slightest credibility.

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[JoeSpareBedroom]

With that last line, you've won a virtual beer.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Oh no. You said plonk. I'll bet that gave you a thrill.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Actually, I'm closely acquainted with several of them. Thanks for asking, though.

Getting involved on a local level is very enlightening. It's a microcosm of larger things that happen in Washington.

[dpb]

personally. ... ...

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I find that very surprising given your previous comments. Do you find them to be dishonorable people answering to the bidding of the corporate robber barons? If so, it's clearly time you need some new representation. Somehow, I'm thinking that isn't your perception of those you know well, however.

If so, what makes you think these guys/gals are principled public servants while those from elsewhere are somehow different (other than you disagree with them on some issues, of course)?

No response needed, just some food for consideration...

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[JoeSpareBedroom]

Every one of them is probably twisted by a broken system which (unless you believe Ron Paul) requires huge amounts of money to get elected. Example: Town board member uses his position to invent a totally unnecessary project that will lose millions of dollars for taxpayers. Why? Because his biggest donor was a commercial construction company, and the donor expects something in return. Otherwise, why donate? Because they're big believers in the democratic process?

[dpb]

...

So this one council member can dream this project up and commit millions on his own? Seems unlikely that's actually the way it came down.

Clearly your town needs you on council to be looking out for their best interests... :)

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[JoeSpareBedroom]

I have no idea how he influenced the others, but it went as far as spending a hundred grand for consultants to do a "study", and the supervisor trumpeted the benefits of the project for a couple of years. Finally, an insider informed me that the project died an "appropriate death", very quietly.

There's local sensitivity to such things because during the last few years, the city of Rochester lost millions in taxpayer money, with a project involving a fast ferry from here to Toronto. Unfortunately, something important was missing: A business plan and research. It died in its first year of operation. No explanation is forthcoming because everyone involved suddenly became mute. The ferry was sold, and we're left with an eyesore of a terminal. You know who did OK because of the project though, right?

That may happen next year. I probably won't last more than one term in office, though. I don't believe in growth for growth's sake.

[alvinamorey]

I see this thread has gone to the shitter !!!!!!!!

[dpb]

And, if it were to occur that you were to make it, I will predict before the end of your term you'll be wondering to yourself how people could possibly not understand your pureness of intent and question "Who got to Joe?" in making a vote on a particular issue...

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[JoeSpareBedroom]

You're right. Politicians never make decisions based on anything but the best of intentions. How could I possibly have missed this fact?

Thanks you so much.

[dpb]

They're just like you--they're human w/ all the foibles pertaining thereto (well, maybe not just like you; you seem at least by your self-description to be of more nearly divine cloth although far too loathe to cast stones than was taught, methinks.) :)

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