On 13-Mar-2006, email@example.com wrote:
You have to brace the channel for the same reason that you brace a floor
joist. It isn't a matter of unsymmetric loading - at some load level, it can
rotate out of plane spontaneously; that's what instability is all about. Once
any instability starts, a channel section will rotate easily - they don't carry
torsional loads like a closed section. That's why the manual has the load
Indeed. Unfortunately I'm not sure if Nick will see the obvious
validity in your concise response as you didn't include lots of
calculations. Sad, but true.
As a minor nitpick, spontaneously connotes without external influence,
which isn't exactly the case with a loaded rod.
Then again, bodies at rest tend to stay at rest :-) You might calculate how
much perturbation is required to make it unstable as a function of loading,
if that floats your boat...
When we play tennis or walk downstairs we are actually solving whole
pages of differential equations, quickly, easily and without thinking
about it, using the analogue computer which we keep in our minds.
What we find difficult about mathematics is the formal, symbolic
presentation of the subject by pedagogues with a taste for dogma,
sadism and incomprehensible squiggles.
from Structures: Why Things Don't Fall Down, by J. E. Gordon
On 14-Mar-2006, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Quantum mechanics has nothing to do with it. Stop being such a twit.
The requirements for bracing are based on solid structural engineering
principles backed by considerable experimental and practical evidence.
Load reduction requirements for reduced bracing are based on the same.
Nick is like a mathematical formula. He has wonderful theoretical
concepts, but you will NEVER get him to admit he is wrong. I tried
that over ten years ago, and for ten years I've been needling him
about the difference between theory and real world.
One definition of pertubation: 1. A small change in a physical system.
If you've ever seen an overloaded closet rod with a big sway in its
back, you'd realize that people jam in as much clothes as the space
will allow. The small change, like squeezing in some new purchases,
doesn't set off a strain alarm.
The difference between you and Don Quixote is that the dear Don
attacked the windmill and got slapped to the ground. You get smacked
around defending the windmill's right to be a giant.
You defend the indefensible with half-understood sophistry, Nick. The
sad thing is that you are a smart guy who can't differentiate between
what he knows and what he thinks he knows. You are being instructed
here. Learn, or not, as is your wont.
Been following this thread with some amusement. As a kid, my father's
company always used thick-wall galvanized pipe for the closet rods- until I
saw other closets in my teens, I thought everyone did. Never saw a 10-foot
rod, but they used to make purpose-built brackets to brace the center of the
shelf that included a half-loop to support the rod, and allowed hangers to
slide past. The stiff-leg was at an angle that just barely cleared the
hanger loop plus most clothes. A thick coat might not get past it.
I do recall seeing J-shaped metal channel, like used for fire doors, that
would probably work in a closet. Make a box section or two to tie the shelf
to the ceiling, and bolt the top edge of the J-channel to the shelf. Take a
lot of art to make it pretty, though- it would definitely be an industrial
Realistically, unless you can find the special brackets I remember from my
youth, I'd say bust it in to two runs, with a column of box shelves up the
middle. What sort of doors will this mega-closet have? Sounds like an
eight-foot opening, minimum, which means multiple doors or custom ones.
Bypass sliders always have an annoying dead spot in the middle anyway.
You don't need a pole, you need a track...something that can be securely
mounted to the ceiling structure and which has a slot or "J" for
If you really want to organize, split up the long wall into 3-4
sections. No problem with poles that way and you can get much more
hanging space because a section can have two poles - one high, one low -
for things that are short like suits/shirts.
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Take the spar from the wing of an airplane.
Any pipe able to take the weight with no say is probably to thick to accept
a hanger and anything wood will sag. It may be possible to fabricate a
vertical structure that can take the weight, but it will have to be so high
that a hanger will not lay properly. I'd guess that a 6" section of 1"
plywood would work.
Personally, I'd plan on at least a center support.
There are closet poles that are supported at the bottom to allow
hangers to be slide over the supports. It is not practical to have a
10-foot pole that is not supported in the middle--anything over 4 feet
will sag unless you are hanging feather boas.
Closetmaid has brackets for their poles that are designed to let clothes
hangers pass over them smoothly. It is sort of a "J" shaped bracket and
supports the pole from underneath. I think that it will only work with the
Closetmaid shelves. You can buy Closetmaid at Home Depot and Lowes.
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