Location for new sump pit, etc

Re: Location for new sump pit, etc
Greetings,
I inhabit a small brick bungalow, built in 1954, poured-concrete foundation, about 800 square feet. Perhaps twice a year we get hard/fast rains (i.e. 3" in 12 hours) which cause a hydrostatic water problem in the basement. The water "pushes up" from underneath the basement floor.
I need to specify/install both a sump pit and a sump pump. I am modestly competent (not expert) at such DIY projects.
My immediate problem is to choose a location for a sump pit so as to avoid pipes etc buried under my basement floor.
A diagram might be helpful (if you can view this as "plain text" (in Notepad or ?) it will be most helpful):
_____________________________ | K P | K - Kitchen vent, runs from | ' | roof thru wall into basement | ' | floor. | ' | F - Floor drain | ' | S - Stack | ' | V - Stack vent in front yard | F | P - Candidate location for | ' | new sump pit. | ' | | ' | | ' | | S | | ' | | ' | | ' | | ' | | ' | | ' | | ' | | ' | | ' | ______________________________ ' front yard ' ' V ' ================================>Sewer line in street
Note that the single quote "lines" from K to F etc are where I "assume" a pipe runs under the basement floor. Do these look reasonable?
The sump pit will be about 24" in diameter and about 24" deep. I will place the edge of the pit about 15" from a wall. I've drilled 2 holes thru the basement floor: it appears to be (surprisingly) only about 2" thick. I currently *hope* to be able to cut the hole with a 'diamond' blade on a standard-duty circular saw.
How much trouble might I be getting myself into, here? What to look for? What to avoid??
Please note that I do not have $1400 (or whatever) to hire a contractor for this ...
I have scoured the net for detailed instructions on pit location, specs on pit size, etc and have found almost nothing. If anyone knows of a good source of info, please let me know.
How much crushed rock outside the pit basin? One fellow told me 1" all around. A net article suggested 6".
Any/all suggestions, info, etc would be much appreciated.
Thanks, David
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Puddin' Man wrote:

I know you were originally thinking of tying the pump dischg into the stack. Looking at your dwg, is there any chance that you could simply dump the outlet pipe into the floor drain? They are typically 4" and should handle the flow.
BTW, the diag looks reasonably accurate.
If you have to cut into the stack, you'll need a P-trap and also a vent line to the roof (or to another vent). Or...they may let you use a mechanical vent, like: http://www.studor.com /
A check valve will probably be reqd too.
You can saw the floor but if used dry it will make a hell of a dust mess. For a small hole I would prefer to bust the floor after drilling a few holes at the perimeter.
I like more stone around the pit. And be sure to elevate the pump above the bottom of the sump so that it doesn't suck in mud/debris.
Jim
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Note too that it is probably a code violation most anywhere in the US to discharge drainage water into a sanitary sewer. With respect to the location of th esewer below the floor, the city/town should be able to tell you where is is from the main in the street to the foundation wall, and you can pretty much guess where it is from the (vent? cleanout?) stack to the foundation, though a drain cleaning company could locate it accurately if needed.
If you put the pit near the right rear corner, as you show, you should likely be away from it, at it likely takes as straight a path as is possible, but be sure. You could hammer-drill a series of holes in an 18" diameter circle in the intended location, break out the floor and hand dig through the fill below in order to install an 18" dia by 24" deep sump pump liner. The bottom of the pit can be lined with crushed stone. Pipe the discharge to the back yard if practical or to a distant dry well, alternately, if the yard does not permit it see if you can arrange w/ the city/town to connect to the municipal storm drain (not sanitary sewer) system at the side of the street.
Zoeller Pump company has detailed installation inforation on their site: http://www.zoeller.com/zcopump/zcopdfdocs/FM0447.pdf look at the typical dewatering application. Note too, you will need a dedicated 20A 120V GCFI protected recepticle to power the pump. For a dewatering application, vs an effluent pump or sewage pump you can just use an opening in the cover, and do not need to run a sealed vent line. The discharge piping can be PVC or ABS Sch 40 (as code permits) or semiflexible PE, or copper or galv steel. A sump pump check valve will also be required, a shutoff in the line is not likely needed (unless it is a very high vertical lift) if you can tolerate some water flushing back when the line is disconnected from the pump for service, replacement, etc. Outside, above grade, flat, floppy collapsing PVC swimming pool drain hose may also be used to carry the water to a suitable location on the lot.
All this assumes the problem is that the local water table rises under the foundation, and not that the water collects along the outside of the foundation wanns and comes through the walls as much/more than up through the floor -- in that case improved drainage placed in a trench around the foundation and redirected to a remote drywell might better solve the problem, but it sounds as though it is indeed rise from below that is troubling you.

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The Masked Marvel wrote:

Just to bring you up to date: this is a continuation from an earlier thread where OP stated that his city has combined san/storm sewers and this connection would be permitted. I had questioned the same thing at the time...
Jim
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I finally got the plumbing inspector. He sez it's OK to route discharge into the drain. This is the simplest approach: the target for the discharge is no longer an issue.

And the assumptions for the routing of the pipes below the floor are "reasonable"? Thanks, this was my primary concern at this time.

No problem.

Yes, I expect the mess. I'll throw up some old shower curtains or somesuch. I'd drill but I fear it'd take much longer and perhaps burn the bearings in a drill or 2 or 3. I may have to anyway if the 'diamond' blades burn up quickly.

3" all around? 6"??

Maybe 3" of gravel in the bottom of the pit, and the pump just above it? 6"??
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 03:29:26 GMT, "The Masked Marvel"
---snip ---

This is "a find", and should be very helpful. Thanks!

I hope I can still get breakers for my 20 yr-old Cutler-Hammer power box ...

It won't be.

I can live with it.

Yes, I've done all I can with the exterior over the years. When we had 12" of rain in 12 hours a few weeks ago, it appeared that all I had was seepage from under the basement floor.
The pump is obviously not secured to the basin. The pump unit is held in place by clamping the discharge pipe above the basin to the wall or floor?
the "The Masked Marvel".
Cheers, Puddin'
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Puddin' Man wrote:

<SNIP>

Go with 3" all around and 3" in the sump (or a couple of bricks).

<SNIP>
I'll have to disagree here. You need a dedicated circuit, but Art. 210-8 (a) (4), Exception #3 excludes sump pumps from the GFCI requirement. A sump pump is different from a decorative fountain in that you don't want the sump pump tripping accidentally when the pump is most needed. (Of course, your inspector may feel differently...) Jim
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Puddin' Man wrote:

Think carefully about using a GFCI receptacle. My preference for sump pumps is to not use them since an unexpected (false) interruption is not desirable. Same reason to not use one on a refrigerator or freezer.
Boden

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