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How about 3 1/2 hours a day in a general insurance brokerage??? If you have cast iron waste pipes, galvanized water pipes, OR K&T wiring up here you WILL have serious problems getting insurance. Same with a

60 amp service (which was a BIG service for most houses wit K&T wiring.)

If you have aluminum wiring you need an electrical inspection and certificate before they will insure the house. Select electricians are authourized to provide the inspections.

Just because no "record of hazard" was found by a local electrical inspector does not mean an insurance company, or even MANY insurance companies, will not have a problem with insulation around K&T wiring - or even that many insulation installers' insurance companies may not have a problem with the insulation contractors installing insulation around them. Like I said before - insurance companies are NOT in the risk business.

Reply to
clare
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Insurers keep a secret history of your home A huge database not only tracks claims, it also looks for risks -- which could cause dropped coverage and other nightmares for homeowners.

advertisement Article Tools E-mail to a friendTools IndexPrint-friendly versionSite MapArticle IndexDiscuss in a Message BoardDigg This By Liz Pulliam Weston You probably know that it's not a good idea to make too many claims on your homeowners insurance policy, because your insurer could drop you.

What you might not know is that a claim could make selling your home more difficult down the road. What's more, you could find your home's value damaged or a sale jeopardized even if a previous owner, and not you, made a claim.

Insurers increasingly are using a huge industry database, called the Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange, or CLUE, to drop or deny coverage based on a home's history of claims or damage reports.

Insurance companies are terrified of rising losses from water and mold damage. So a single report of water-related problems may be enough for insurers to shun your home.

Jan and Kevin Garder of Bremerton, Wash., discovered this the hard way. The Garders thought they were doing the right thing when they told their insurance company, State Farm, about some minor water damage caused by a rainstorm last year.

Consumers held hostage The couple, who say they had been with their insurer for 30 years without filing a claim, ultimately decided not to file one this time, either.

That didn't stop State Farm from dropping them as customers, they say. Not only that, but they say State Farm also shared the damage information with the CLUE database. When the Garders applied for coverage elsewhere, the other insurers cited State Farm's damage report as the reason they wouldn't write a policy, Jan Garder said.

Reply to
bob haller

Umm... Bob, I hate to rain on your parade, but fuses are actually much safer as overcurrent devices than circuit breakers, as fuses can not fail in the "circuit closed" position like circuit breakers tend to do...

Fuses are frequently used down stream of a circuit breaker in a panel to provide the protection to the DEVICE being used rather than to protect the wiring like a circuit breaker...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

insurance companies dont look at it this way, far too many people overfuse, so as to prevent blown fuses.

so based on this insurance does not like fuses.

apparently few people change breakers to higher current ones.........

Reply to
bob haller

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this PDF details as age of homes increase so does fire rate, and has info on 3 home fire traced back to K&T encapsulated in insulation....

Reply to
bob haller

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Heres a you tube video about K&T hazards...... perhaps thats more buds speed:)

Reply to
bob haller

For many years I spent a lot of time at the westinghouse circuit breaker plant in beaver pa.

a fascinating place, i became a kinda employee or one of the guys. I was there for tests that rocked the building they made everything from high voltage distribution stuff to home main breakers.

heck they offered me a job too, no interview needed. they said we know you your hired, just drop application at reception, when do you want to start? i declined the offer, which turned out a good decision, 2 years later they had massive layoffs, everyone with less than 20 years was let go:(

breakers are all designed to fail trip early, that is they become more sensitive over time.....

if you have a breaker that trips a lot just try replacing it, the circuit may be fine, the breaker is likely at fault.

Reply to
bob haller

Only the one on the POS Stab-Loc I threw out here and replaced with a proper QO panel.

QO is all I use for my personal projects. The cost difference is pretty small really.

Reply to
Pete C.

Anecdotal evidence proves astrology works.

I wasn't there and didn't talk to them.

Why does a state agency in your state insulate over K&T?

What posts?

In this thread you have got wrong: Clare needed to convert to breakers because of homeowners insurance. you can't get insurance for fuses you can never get insurance for K&T you can never get insurance for K&T from State Farm there is a "great chance of a loss" (K&T is intrinsically unsafe) there are no boxes with K&T if you open a wall with K&T it is "mandatory to upgrade" homes with K&T can't be insulated

Reply to
bud--

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Looking at the first 10: K&T "is not inherently dangerous".

Some said insulation over K&T was a fire hazard - with no basis for the statement. Based on reality - California and Washington did not find a single fire that was attributed to insulation over K&T. Both allow insulation over K&T. (They are not the only ones.)

A PA state agency insulates over K&T.

And there is the head electrical inspector for Minneapolis who said no record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them.

Still missing - any reason to believe insulating over K&T is a problem based on the record of the huge number of houses that have been insulated.

In this thread you have got wrong: Clare needed to convert to breakers because of homeowners insurance. you can't get insurance for fuses you can never get insurance for K&T you can never get insurance for K&T from State Farm there is a "great chance of a loss" (K&T is intrinsically unsafe) there are no boxes with K&T if you open a wall with K&T it is "mandatory to upgrade" homes with K&T can't be insulated

Reply to
bud--

Cite.

Your FUD is that K&T is old. Do OLD breakers still work mechanically? Corrosion? What can happen to a fuse? I agree with Evan. So does clare.

But that is irrelevant.

As already stated, my State Farm agent said 100A fused service are not likely a problem. (Insurance companies are likely to want at least a

100A service - fused or CB.)

From clare "Well, I work every morning at a general insurance brokerage office. A REAL one, not a state-farm office. No problem with fuse panel (with inspection certificate )"

Your FUD about fuses is just your fetish. There is no evidence it is shared by any insurance companies.

In this thread you have got wrong: Clare needed to convert to breakers because of homeowners insurance. you can't get insurance for fuses you can never get insurance for K&T you can never get insurance for K&T from State Farm there is a "great chance of a loss" (K&T is intrinsically unsafe) there are no boxes with K&T if you open a wall with K&T it is "mandatory to upgrade" homes with K&T can't be insulated

Reply to
bud--

No source.

No context.

Quoted by someone with a fetish.

Nope

In this thread you have got wrong: Clare needed to convert to breakers because of homeowners insurance. you can't get insurance for fuses you can never get insurance for K&T you can never get insurance for K&T from State Farm there is a "great chance of a loss" (K&T is intrinsically unsafe) there are no boxes with K&T if you open a wall with K&T it is "mandatory to upgrade" homes with K&T can't be insulated

Reply to
bud--

Completely irrelevant.

Completely irrelevant.

No "record of hazard" was found by the HEAD ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR FOR MINNEAPOLIS. A lot of insulation has been installed over K&T in Minneapolis. It was installed in my mothers old house over 40 years ago. If there was a fire hazard the chief electrical inspector would know about it.

From hallerb we get California and Washington did not find a single fire that was attributed to insulation over K&T.

But maybe fires just happen in Canada.

I am interested in the US.

Reply to
bud--

Three fires out of 149 in what the survey source says was not a valid "probability sample". The report says "knob and tube wiring only played a small role in the incidents of fire in this study".

What reason is there to believe that K&T is significantly more hazardous than other wiring methods? Still missing.

Of course you don't read and understand what you post. This is the same report I have referred to several times already. It says "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is not an inherent fire hazard." And this is the agency that insulates over K&T - in your state.

In this thread you have got wrong: Clare needed to convert to breakers because of homeowners insurance. you can't get insurance for fuses you can never get insurance for K&T you can never get insurance for K&T from State Farm there is a "great chance of a loss" (K&T is intrinsically unsafe) there are no boxes with K&T if you open a wall with K&T it is "mandatory to upgrade" homes with K&T can't be insulated

Reply to
bud--

Another anecdote?

I don't watch youtube.

Reply to
bud--

Bud, The national electrical and building codes IN THE USA do NOT allow insulation over/arounf K&T.

Insurance underwriters do not allow (in most cases) houses with K&T wiring.

An unmolested K&T wiring system, even if surrounded by insulation, would, in all probability, not cause a fire dsnger - but UNMOLESTED K&T systems are EXCEDINGLY rare - and any poorly made modifications, dangerous enough when in open air, and open to be found and repaired if a problem develops, are hidden in (often flammable) insulation, where if a problem develops the first sign is smoke.

Reply to
clare

Got my "service layout" from WNH this afternoon. Need to put in a new meter base and I'm limitted to 125 amps with the existing underground service. About $1700 to WNH plus trenching to get it up to 200 amps.

If I stick with 100 to 125, all it will cost me is about $73 for the disconnect/reconnect, and the new meter base over and above the panel replacement, and the new meter box installation will allow me to raise the power cable entry to the panel by the required 4". Panel replacement by licenced electrician, including Seimens panel (the electrician's favourite - don't know why) is $750 so it will likely be scheduled soon.

Reply to
clare

no insurance company will want to insure a home that violates the NEC.........

Reply to
bob haller

check price for a 200 amp panel with smaller main breaker...... it may not be much more and leaves room for expansion

Reply to
bob haller

and extension cords are a trip hazard too. a visitor could easily trip on a extension cord.......

all ecause someone refused to replace their aged 100 year old K&T wiring. The hazards are more than just fire ones.

Reply to
bob haller

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