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Did you notice the OPs first post, converting to breakers to obtain new homeowners insurance.......
obviously a buyer who cant obtain homeowners insurance cant get a mortage......
so its a no sale.......
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bud-- wrote:

Huh? What happens at this "backup?" Does a big blister form filled with current corpuscles? Should it be lanced if it gets bothersome?
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On 11/2/2011 7:33 PM, bob haller wrote:

I remember a lot of people posting that they had no problem.
Perhaps if you used "might" as part of your FUD.
--
bud--



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when did they have no problem ?
its been much more of a issue in the last 5 years.
why would any insurance company insure a home at great chance of a loss?"
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wrote:

One thing I have found working for an insurance office over the last decade is insurance companies are NOT in the risk taking business!!!
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Actually there ARE in the risk-taking business. If the insurance companies were to avoid all risk, they wouldn't be writing insurance policies. If there was no risk at all, no one would buy insurance. One can ALWAYS get insurance, no matter the risk - providing they are willing to pay the premium.
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wrote:

They are NOT in the risk TAKING business. They are in the risk MANAGEMENT business.
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On Nov 3, 10:03pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

insurance avoids insuring bad risks. people with multiple DUIs, homes in poor condition, anything or anyone thats at greater risk than average. ' just look at health insurance surcharging policies of people with health troubles.
smokers pay significantly more for life insurance.
insurance companies have gotten much more risk adverse...... with the wild weather just look at their losses from extreme weather.........
like all business these days stockholders demand big profits......
and insurance looks to minimize their risks and payouts
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Oh.
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On 11/3/2011 1:16 PM, bob haller wrote:

Maybe you could go back and find out.

Where is your actuarial basis that K&T and fuses are more hazardous that a lot of other wiring.
*YOUR* link to a report from the "Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development" says "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is not an inherent fire hazard".
My State Farm agent says a 100A fused service isn't a problem and relatively small parentage of K&T is not likely a problem.
Clare said fuse panels weren't a problem.
Others have said they didn't have a problem with K&T.
None of that gets past your fetish screen.
You continue with FUD.
--
bud--

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YOUR* link to a report from the "Pennsylvania Department of Community

please show me some homes with 100 year old unaltered K&T. after 100 years or more most if not all homes have had wiring changes....
the worst part of K&T is there are no boxes and the wiring and connections are buried in walls and cant be looked at.......
open the wall to inspect makes it mandatory to upgrade the wiring.....
and few people today want homes that cant be insulated, and at the pittsburgh home show every insulating company refused to insulate a home with K&T stating their business insurance wouldnt allow it..I asked every vendor there......
Bud face facts K&T isnt as safe as modern wiring just like a 1950s vehicle isnt as safe in a accident as a new vehicle.
in a test wreck of a 1957 bel air and a 2009 malibu the malibu driver would of walked away while the bel air driver would of died from multiple causes.....
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ultimately a homeowner attempting to sell will find out wether any perspective buyer can obtain homeowners insurance at the time of sale... if i a purcase aggrement all repairs must be done by licensed bonded insured contractor, that can run up costs dramatically/.
but has zero effect on me......
do tell besides K&T what other things last over a 100 years?
how many unaltered K&T installs are still around?
K&T around here typically has no boxes.
in a lifetime how many cars have you purchased? certinally a model T should be fine? why buy a new one, shouldnt it last forever?
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wrote:

Well, he's RIGHT that MOST houses with ORIGINAL K&T do NOT have boxes, and he's also correct - in MOST of North America that it is impossible to insure just about every house with K&T wiring.
He is also CORRECT that FULLY insulating a house with K&T wiring is a serious problem.
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On 11/7/2011 4:16 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You are generalizing your experience, in Canada, to the universe.
That is not my experience here.

Cite.
A number of people at a.h.r have said they didn't have a problem.
Where is the actuarial data that K&T is more of a problem than other wiring.
Hallerb's source, the "Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development", says "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is not an inherent fire hazard".
Perhaps a more defensible statement, like you MAY have a problem getting insurance....

Cite.
The head electrical inspector here has said no record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them.
Hallerb's source, a state agency, in his state, insulates over K&T.
Where is your evidence?
--
bud--

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https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=gw#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=webhp&source=hp&q=knob+and+tube+wiring+safety+hazards&pbx=1&oq=knob+and+tube+wiring+safety&aq=1v&aqi=g1g-v1&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=0l0l1l8120l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=957e6826046888e5&biw=1134&bih=601
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this dates back 10 years ag0 about no insurance no home sale
bud is seriously out of date:(
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As existing K&T wiring gets older, insurance companies may deny coverage due to a perception of increased risk.[6] Several companies will not write new homeowners policies at all unless all K&T wiring is replaced, or an electrician certifies that the wiring is in good condition. Also, many institutional lenders are unwilling to finance a home with limited ampacity (current carrying capacity) service (which, as noted above, often goes hand-in-hand with K&T wiring), unless the electrical service is upgraded
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older home w/fuse panel and breaker box dilemna
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a home built in 1946 that has a 6 fuse panel with the description 35 amp 125/240 volts inside the housev that has 6- 30amp fuses in it. I also have a breaker box outside tied in under the meter that has 4 main groups of breakers ( 2 sets of 30/30) one set of 40/40 and one set of 60/60. Is this a problem? I am selling my home and an insurance agent for the buyer said his company wouldn't probably be able to write a policy because of the way the electric is set up. I am sure this panel was installed quite a few years ago because of the way the factory paper description on the inside lid is worn and discolored. Anyway, any suggestions why he would not write a policy? I have insurance now with no problem. We have seldom ever blown a fuse, and occasionally one of the 30/30 breakers trips, but that has only happened when I'm sure the circuit was definitely overloaded..... Thanks for your input. Incidently, the fuse box and breaker are approx. 4 feet from each other inside to outside of house, is it possible that I might have to have the fuse box eliminated and a larger breaker box installed? Is that possible without re-wiring the entire house? thanks in advance.
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Chances are replacing the fuse box with a circuit breaker could reduce your home owners insurance policy markedly. Because fuses are outdated, insurance companies look at a house with a fuse box and see an electrical fire waiting to happen. Right there, your rates go up, and homeowners have a big incentive to toss out the fuse box.
The one situation that will really leave you with little in the way of options is if the wiring in your home is so old as to be so dangerous that no insurance company will touch it with a 20 foot pole. In the earliest days of electrical wiring, bare conductor was looped around insulating knobs hammered into beams. This configuration, known as knob-and-tube wiring, was so unsafe it was rapidly replaced by wires sheathed in metal and cellulose; and yet there are still homes in the oldest parts of Washington DC and its suburbs where electricians may find it still in use today. If in the process of buying a home, a home inspector finds that knob-and-tube wiring, it is unlikely you will be able to find an insurance company willing to provide coverage for the house
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Umm... Bob, I hate to rain on your parade, but fuses are actually much safer as overcurrent devices than circuit breakers, as fuses can not fail in the "circuit closed" position like circuit breakers tend to do...
Fuses are frequently used down stream of a circuit breaker in a panel to provide the protection to the DEVICE being used rather than to protect the wiring like a circuit breaker...
~~ Evan
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