LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00

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You did show that LED bulbs are more conomical than incandescents.
However, CFLs appear to me to be more economic still, with lower ratio of acquisition cost to life expectancy than LED bulbs, and efficiency no worse than any LED bulb I ever heard of being on the market with a decent color and decent color rendering.
However, LEDs with good color and color rendering have a good chance of becoming more economical than CFLs in a few years.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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And the difference in purchase price between the two bulbs?
My problem with the CFLs is that the amounts of money they save, over the time they save it, are exceedingly trivial. Not worth it, to me. It's not worth it to most consumers either, which is why the bulb industry nas to lobby the government to ban incandescents in order to create a market for their CFLs.
--
Tegger


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Tegger wrote:

Apparently you have not done the math, or have made some mistakes:
60W equiv. 13W CFL, 8,000hr rated life, $1.58 ea (8pk) 60W incandescent, 1,000hr rated life, $0.6225 ea (8pk)
CFL cost for 8,000 hours = $1.58 Incandescent cost for 8,000 hours = $4.98
CFL savings in lamp cost alone $3.40
CFL energy cost for 8,000 hrs at 13W (104kWh) at $0.15/kWh = $15.60 Incandescent cost for 8,000 hours at 60W (480kWh) at $0.15/kWh = $72.00
CFL energy savings over 8,000 hours $56.40
Total CFL savings over 8,000 operating hours for one lamp = $59.80
Total CFL savings over the life of the 8 lamps in the package = $478.40
If we presume that the 7 yr life listed for the 8,000 hr lamp life is reasonable (it's about 3hrs/day), and the household has 8 lamps that are used regularly (pretty average), the yearly savings of the CFLs works out to $68.34 or $5.70 per month.
$5.70 per month doesn't sound like a whole lot, but considering that you save that by doing nothing but buying a different type of light bulb, and also saving yourself around 3 hours of light bulb changing time (56 extra changes x 3 minutes per change), I'd say it's entirely worthwhile.
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== What's with the 8000 hr. b.s.? I've had a number of them last only about 500 hours and of course I had thrown the packaging away. Now, I write the installation date on the sleeve and file it away. Of course if you don't have the freakin receipt, you're up the creek as well. Even some from the same lot have different life-times. The ones that lasted the longest were in outside enclosed fixtures and were turned on for eight to twelve hour durations all year long. ==
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wrote:

That's assuming you ever get one to last 8000 hours. I never have. I replace CFLs more often than incandescents around here

Wouldn't be too bad if you could buy decent quality CFLs - but everything today is a crap-shoot. Doesn't matter what you pay for them they are all cheap chinese crap.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote in

China is, and from what I've read always has been, the intended manufacturing location for all CFLs.
A couple of years ago, I read a newspaper article about the CFL matter. According to the article (newspaper name unremembered now), the major light-bulb makers were in possession of North American factories that were reaching the ends of their productive lives, were expensively unionized, and were in need of extensive and expensive overhaul.
The makers were reluctant to pour large amounts of new money into an old- technology product that had slim margins to begin with, so they decided to develop and promote a relatively new technology that carried much higher margins: CFLs. Since CFLs required brand-new machinery, the makers could justify new plants in places where labor was very cheap. Guess where?
How many CFLs are made in North America? I'd wager...few to none.
Since CFLs are extremely expensive compared to incandescents; often produce unattractive light; "light-off" slowly; contain mercury; have limited application, consumers were understandably reluctant to purchase them. For this reason, governments in the First World were intensively lobbied by bulb makers (among other groups; for their own reasons) to have incandescents banned.
--
Tegger


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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That's very strange, I don't know what would account for that. You don't have them on dimmers, or worse yet the old fashioned diode dimmers that give half wave AC do you? That will kill a CFL very quickly, as will a lot of short on times as the startups give the most "wear" to a CFL.

I've not had any issues with the bulk pack CFLs from Depot / Lowe's / Sam's / Costco. See my other post.
I've also used six little 9W CFLs to light the inside of a 40' cargo container in the frozen northeast and had no problems with those either, even when the ambient temp was below zero. Granted at those temps the CFLs do take about 90 seconds to reach full brightness, but after that they are fine and I have had no failures there either.
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wrote:

been the PAR floods (potlights) which have NEVER lasted more than 14 months - and usually the last 5 or more of that 14 being extremely slow to light off. Never had much luch with the F40 tubes either, and "green" t12s are even worse. I'm down to only 3 of those disasters left in the house.
I DID still have 1 old circline compact flourescent in working condition up untill about 3 months ago that I bought about 22-25 years ago. Bought 2 - the first one died about 6 years back. Cannot remember the manufacturer but it was North American
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You can sort of blame the enviromental people. The new bulbs do not contain enough mercury to really light off, especially if it gets cold.
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Ralph Mowery wrote:

I have "green" T8 4' fluros in my unheated shop and never have a problem when it's near freezing. I also used regular 9W CFLs to light a 40' cargo container which saw ambient temps below 0F, and had no issues there either other then about a 90 second wait for them to reach full brightness when it was that cold.
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in part:
<SNIP everything already said to edit for space>

I would guess from being used in those heat hellholes known as recessed ceiling fixtures.
I would look for ones of the Philips brand, and I did just check and see that bulbs.com has these. I even found two dimmable ones with no noted restrictions, but they are fairly expensive:
http://www.bulbs.com/eSpec.aspx?ID 683&Ref=Reflector&RefIdE&Ref2 =Compact+Fluorescent+Screw-in
http://www.bulbs.com/eSpec.aspx?ID 746&Ref=Reflector&RefIdE&Ref2 =Compact+Fluorescent+Screw-in

Those were *the standard* for commercial lighting from at least as far back as sometime in the 1960's until T8 displaced them largely in the 1990's. However, there were and are lower grade "residential grade" ballasts for those.
Also - if the fixture has a starter and a replacement bulb is cranky or malfunctions, replace the starter. Bad bulbs are hard on starters, and bad starters are hard on bulbs.

If you man 34 watt version of F40T12, those are crankier than the true 40 watt ones. They still worked well in commercial grade fixtures with commercial grade ballasts.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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I had one "60W" CFL of a 4-pack die very quickly,just a month or two. Two more from the same pack seem to be lasting OK.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
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<SNIP what led to this for editing for space>

My experience with CFLs is much more favorable. They appear to me to actually last on average in my actual home usage 3,500 to 4,000 hours for the ones that have burned out so far, with some distinct and notable exceptions mostly notably avoidable. The ones that I have to burn out, of which I have plenty, appear to me to have mostly lasted at least 4,000 operating hours. I seem to think that 5,000 hours is reasonable for actual typical home use.
<SNIP a repeating of the math>

The odds get good if you get ones of a "Big 3" brand (GE, Philips, Sylvania) or one that has the Energy Star logo, especially one with both accomplishments.
My experience suggests to avoid Lights of America and the even-badly-much-worse-still dollar store stool specimens.
Use them only where on average they are on at least a few minutes when they are turned on. They are not economical for motion sensor lights, closet lights or refrigerator lights.
CFLs can overheat in small enclosed fixtures and recessed ceiling fixtures. Most problems in that area can be avoided by using only CFLs overtly rated for such purposes or of wattage no more than 23 watts. (Better still no more than 13 watts if that provides sufficient light.)
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On 4/11/2010 9:42 AM Roy spake thus:

This seems to vary wildly by individual case.
I've got a bunch of CFLs, including some decidedly "old-school" ones (20 watters from Ikea, which were the cheapest ones at the time) that I've been using since 2002 with no problems.
--
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:43:50 -0700, David Nebenzahl

made in Germany or Belgium or someplace like that. So I went the 80Km to get some more a year or so later, and "Made in China".
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On 4/11/2010 7:28 PM snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca spake thus:

The Ikea bulbs were pretty good--they were linear, with 4 tubes, not "twirly", but they had one really annoying feature: they took what seemed like forever (actually about 5 seconds) to light up; enough time to cross a room before any light appeared. Other than that, they were bright and reliable.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

I've never had any issues with all the CFLs I use, and they are pretty much all made in China bulk pack ones. I really don't understand what factors may be involved with the folks who seem to have suck bad luck with CFLs, but I've used them extensively at 4 different locations in two different states, all with no problems at all.
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Buy HD stuff, you are in their computer and just the other day I returned some without a reciept, HD has a 9 yr warranty and I often buy the CFls so im in their computer, no mail in required.
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On 4/12/2010 4:42 AM ransley spake thus:

So do they just scan the bulb? Is the bulb's barcode in their database? What if you buy a 4-pack and just return 1 blub?
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I keep a package packing of the last group purchased, since I use over 100 at different locations I save the burnt out ones and wait till I have a full pack, but knowing HD they would give you just one, my failure rate is so minimal over 4 years and the prices now so low its really a non issue for me now. about .45C a bulb isnt much for what I save in electricity it is great that they do work well.
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