LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00

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"GE says the new bulb uses just 9 watts and provides a 77% energy savings while lasting 25 times as long as the 40-watt bulb it's intended to replace."
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/09/new-ge-lightbulb-lasts-years /
Assume a 40-watt bulb lasts 1000 hours.
40w x 1000 = 40 kwh x $0.15/kwh = $6.00 operating cost over life of bulb.
The new bulb uses 9 watts. So for the same period,
9w x 1000 = 9 kwh x $0.15/kwh = $1.35 operating cost.
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My 9w =40 watt Cfls from HD have a 9 yr warranty. The 9 and 13 watt Cfls cost 1.85 a 4 pack or about 2$ with tax, thats only 0.50c a piece. The HD Cfls have a 61.1 LPW rating and many LEDs are only 80 LPW rating, thats only a 20% increase for a bulb costing maybe 300% more! And the Leds ive seen are not the Warm White like your old incandesant or modern Soft White Cfls, they are near 2900 K, not the 2700K that is "Warm White'.
Ive looked at them, the Leds are non dimmable, interior grade, 300% more in cost, only 20% more efficent and basicly offfered as a Spot light , [ by Leds direct lighting design]. So what you have is limited spot light useage and a reciept you cant loose for many years.
Also that compared those only to incandesant, do a Cfl comparison in advertising and its obvious Leds dont make sence yet as a prime time, complete replacement home bulb. The Leds ive seen are rated at 80-100 Lpw , but this is actualy a Spot light configuration. you can get T8 18" tube that are rated 80-100Lpw for near 300 % less of better color rendition and some new name brand Cfls are near 70 Lpw. So again Leds are way overpriced.
www.1000bulbs.com point out that with the rush to market these high priced new bulbs that 80% of the ratings you read are bull shit, I bought a Lights Of America Led, [ makers of many high quaility commercial lighting products] and found the 9w Led to be a total lie and terrible color rendition, it put out about 25% as much as a HD Cfl ! Im looking, but havnt found Leds to be usefull for anything except Can lights, and I need dimable and cant find that either, so I wait and buy HD Cfls cheap.
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Over the life of the bulb, the savings is considerable, about $116.
Right now, I'm not going to pay extra for a bulb that is going to last longer than me. They need brighter bulbs and decent color. I wonder if they've done anything about that. I did buy an LED nightlight for the bathroom. It is 4W, IIRC and bright enough. It gives a very blue light and in a blue bathroom it is kind of overkill on blue. Good enough to take a leak middle of the night, now something I'd want to live with all the time.
I imagine the price will come down over time, just as the CFL has in recent years. They went from $20 to $1 and improved the light color too.
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 08:39:10 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"

I use quite a few LED lamps on my sailboat, where saving electricity is a way of life. They are rapidly getting cheaper and better than even a couple of years ago. "Boats" is a relatively tiny niche market where everything tends to be far more expensive for no apparent reason. Once they have decent LED lamps for the home and commercial applications, expect quality to rise exponetially and costs to plummet. I'm looking forward to it.
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On Apr 11, 10:59 am, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

In this house and for ten months of the year, especially at night when lights tend to be on and it is cool or cold, we can use the electrically generated heat of 'wasteful' non LEDs and CFLs. i.e. incandescents inside the house.
It just means our electric heaters, using hydro generated power don't cut in quite as often!
Although we use (re-used) fluorescent tube fixtures from an old school, in workshop, kitchen, garage etc. (We saved a whole bunch from going to he dump, including some reusable tubes. Some are electronic, others old style).
Where we must try an LED is in the outside porch fixture which is on most of the night; mainly for safety purposes. And also insurance purposes, if someone did happen to trip up! The heat and light from that is just wasted outdoors.
Elsewhere outside we have a couple of motion sensor lights that come on for a few minutes each time. Haven't changed the bulbs in them for quite a few years.
However for some 10 hours per night; electricity for that outside porch light (long life/rural incandescent using 50 watts per hour), for one year costs; 365 x 50 x10/1000 = kilowatts. Each kilowatt hour costs about 9 or 10 cents including all taxes etc. So annual cost about $18. So an LED or CFL (provided it works in cold weather without hesitation) using one third the power might be cost efficient? The existing bulbs usually last several years (last one changed earlier this year) was the second of two bought some ten to fifteen years ago. Our voltage rarely above 119 to 121 volts and probably pretty steady at night when load is lower.
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But I like the most of the US pay near 50% more per BTU for electric, so Incandesants are a waste as is electric heat.
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wrote: www.1000bulbs.com point out that with the rush to market these high priced new bulbs that 80% of the ratings you read are bull shit, I bought a Lights Of America Led, [ makers of many high quaility commercial lighting products]
Lights of America makers of "high quality" commercial lighting products?
This outfit is on my never even think about buying again from list, because every single one of their products I have ever purchased have died an early death, and even while still alive performed less than the competition.
Caveat emptor.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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wrote:

t\
The present generation of LED lamps is, at best only slightly more efficient than the CFL lamps.
In theory they last much longer but, because they are "new technolgy" the bugs haven't been worked out and you can expect a LOT of pre-mature failures.
Bottom line for now is just the CFL "bulbs."
In the fullness of time the LEDs should be more efficient that the CFL to at least the low double digits. The "color" problems should also be solved.
But that's no reason to buy them now unless you have a special application that truly requires a super long life.
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 22:10:07 -0400, "John Gilmer"

I believe the LED's themselves as a component, have a service life of around 50,000 hours. The problems with current LED's for the home is that they have to have a regulator built into each one to take 120 volts AC and reduce it to just a few volts DC. That is very inefficient. I am thinking that LED's for retrofits will always be a problem. In new construction, if the building is wired with low voltage DC for lighting circuits, I think that problem can be overcome NOW. It would be pretty easy to set up a battery bank of AGM batteries that would be charged by solar panels and backed up by an AC charger. This sort of system would be extremely low maintenance, and would also greatly reduce the cost of the individual lamps due to elimination of all of those individual regulators. AGM batteries in this sort of setup would last a decade or more, easily, and most of the electricity for your lights would be from solar. That would make the numbers work. Your lights would continue to work in a power failure as a bonus.
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On 4/12/2010 3:28 AM snipped-for-privacy@dog.com spake thus:

That's an interesting idea, and you may be right: this might be the wave of the future for home lighting.
One problem with this is that low-voltage wiring loses much more power over long runs than comparable high-voltage wiring, due to I^2R losses. (This can be partly compensated for by using heavier conductors, but that adds cost.) While this may not be a problem in a small, compact house where the batteries are centrally located, it will definitely be a problem on a large suburban "spread" where the batteries may be located in an outbuilding. Maybe not a show-stopper, but there will definitely be some energy losses to deal with. The homeowner may end up running 8-gauge cables over long runs.
--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
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On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:47:27 -0700, David Nebenzahl

Don't forget that these LEDs don't draw anywhere near what present incandescents and CFL's draw. Once you eliminate the point of use regulation, the draw is drasticallhy lower. A lot of the power consumption for present retrofit LED's is the heat given off during regulation. The LED's themselves barely draw anything by comparison.
I don't foresee needing long runs of 8 gauge wire in residential applications.
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Not my experience - my experience with 120V AC LED lamps of 2 watts or more is that most of the consumed power usually actually goes to the LEDs themselves. My experience is that in units 2 watts or more, most of the heat comes from the LEDs. LEDs are even now generally 55-75% efficient or even more at converting electrical energy delivered them into heat rather than light, and much of that is non-radiant heat.

Not that I do for that matter...
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Apr 12, 2:57 pm, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

The Leds I see advertised are 80-100 LPW, but its a Spot output. I use cheap HD cfls of about 60 LPW for .45c each with 9 yr warranty. Ive seen a few CFLs now at around 70 LPW. Remember incandesant are only about 15 LPW. I cant see paying the near 100% premium price for LEDs at this time for only a near 20% increase on LPW for a colder color bulb, that usualy isnt outdoor rated or dimmable and with a truely unknown life span, I would relate that to the electronics package, in real life surges, weather extremes, vibrations, all take a toll on electronics and only time will really tell whether they last as they say. Either way the excessive premium does not make them a viable option for the average home owner now. Leds are really a spot light design, not fully illuminating like a regular bulb so in most locations they may be the right bulb, as a general bulb. In time competition will stop the price gouging Leds manufacturers now enjoy from limited competition, but that is years away. I want to try a few 2 w exterior Leds as landscape units, but even these are near 25$ each! I think its going to be Cfls for awhile for me.
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Leds last, but the electronic package and the non exterior housings I see make me think you cant loose that Receipt for your warranty. In time they will come down in price.
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ransley wrote in small part:
<SNIP to mention of Lights of America>

<SNIP afterwards>
Maybe the many L.O.A. CFLs that I have personally purchased and used and had personal experience with are other than these "many high quality commercial lighting products"?
Although L.O.A. appears to me to be much better than the outright stool specimens that nearly all dollar store CFLs (with possible exceptions at some Dollar Tree stores) appear to me to be, I am rather displeased by my personal experience with L.O.A. CFLs. I have only purchased two L.O.A. screw-base CFLs after 2002 and at least one likely both of those in 2005. One of those latest two gave me problems by the time I ran it a few 10's of operating hours and both of those two appeared to me to produce lower ratio of claimed to actual light output than I found from CFLs of most other brands and from most non-dollar-store A19-style incandescents that stated light output in lumens.
All of the L.O.A. CFLs that I purchased in 2002 or earlier similarly appeared to me to have lower ratio of actual to claimed light output than most CFLs other than L.O.A. and the dollar-store-junkers, and my memory at this moment is of 6 of these that I personally purchased and 2 of these 6 completely died young (around 12 and a few hundred operating hours respectively) and 2 others of these 6 significantly malfunctioned due to poor contact in plug-socket connections ("modular" rather than "integral" design, bulb plugs into a screw-base ballast module) and/or poor solder joints.
I mention this in at least a bit more detail in:
http://members.misty.com/don/cfapp.html#b
I stand by my negative experiences with L.O.A. that I mention there and above here as actual personal experience with L.O.A. products that I personally purchased in-store from major-name retailers. (Although I disclaim guaranteeing accuracy down to the year of every one of my many negative personal experiences with L.O.A. CFL products, including year-of-purchase and year of malfunction that I actually personally experienced.)
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Apr 18, 1:28 am, snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

I meant High Quality as kinda a joke. What I was suprised at was my ACE sold LOA leds that LOA wont even show on their site, they are crap, even a grey color of a bs lumen rating.
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On 4/18/2010 1:28 AM, Don Klipstein wrote:

I got a dollar store CFL that blew apart in a matter of days. The little cheap capacitors blew apart like a black cat firecracker.
Long term the LED lights will suffer from the same issues as other electronics. Heat, solder, and component failure will do them in early too. Who cares about the warranty? the here today gone tomorrow Chinese MFR will make sure the warranty is next to worthless. And quality lights manufactured by major companies will not be cost effective. Who wants to be green when it costs more long term?
At least old school light bulbs tend to last. I think if Edison were to come back to life in 2010 he would be both amazed and befuddled at the same time
bob
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And NO hazardous material disposal problem.
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wrote:

You neglected to figure in the life of the LED lamp at 25,000 hours, for a savings of over $30 per lamp, and the cost of all the standard lamps you would not be replacing.
Now count how many lamps in one typical home.
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