Lead Paint Regs

[Pat]

I was just wondering who was doing what in response to the new EPA lead rules that take effect in 2010.

I took the safe work practices course way back when, when it was all new. So I guess I'm okay, But this new rule seems like it can stand things on it head for most people because there's no way they are going to be able to train every contractor in the country be mid-2010.

It seems like the reg could have some serious, practical consequences. For example, if the contractor sets up a work zone, neither the architect nor the building inspector could enter the area if they don't have training. Homeowners really shouldn't be allowed back in the work area until it's cleared, and clearance can take a week or so. All the testing, clearance, etc will add time and money to projects.

What are most people doing, just ignoring it and hope nothing bad happens.

[ransley]

Are you talking about apartments and tenants or big commercial rehabs, I went through lead removal probably some kid was sucking on chinese toys. The big issue is keep paint from peeling, peeling lead paint gets ground up to dust, that is what inspectors usualy test in apartments.

[bigjimpack]

[ransley]

Nobody gets a permit to paint a house, and nobody cares, the sky isnt falling and wont fall. You are out of touch with reality.

[ransley]

Nothing bad will happen for a homeowner, In apts bad stuff does happen with inspectors.

[<josh]

No, it assumes most people don&#39;t get permits for DIY renovations to begin with, and inspectors don&#39;t have the time or desire to go around revoking occupancy over minor home renovations.

Seriously, go to one of the big box stores, look at all the water heaters in stock, and tell me you honestly think most consumers take out a permit to replace their own water heater.

Look at all the drywall, paint, and paneling in stock, and tell me you honestly think most consumers get a permit to spruce up the pantry.

Unless this new rule is backed by substantial new enforcement funding, it will join the long list of rules that are routinely ignored by homeowners working on their own homes.

[George Conklin]

The putty in windows was almost pure lead. My father swore by lead putty, and he was a chemist. He worked it in his hands to keep it flexible. He died at age 90. It must have shortened his life.

[ransley]

Lead putty, when was that used, Lead isnt flexible until near 600f, I know lead was in paint but putty? The problem is these hungry kids eat paint chips and suck on chinese toys painted with lead paint, so when they dont achieve in school they are tested and the parents can sue the lanlord. It doesnt matter if the mother drank a gallon of booze a day in pregnancy or that the kid got it from toys. Lanlords have gotten screwed from kids testing positive for lead.

[George Conklin]

Lead putty, when was that used, Lead isnt flexible until near 600f, I know lead was in paint but putty? The problem is these hungry kids eat paint chips and suck on chinese toys painted with lead paint, so when they dont achieve in school they are tested and the parents can sue the lanlord. It doesnt matter if the mother drank a gallon of booze a day in pregnancy or that the kid got it from toys. Lanlords have gotten screwed from kids testing positive for lead.

Yes, lead-based putty. He swore by it. Said lead-based paint would chalk, but not peel, thus providing for a long life. Of course, we grew up with lead-based paint and no one thought much of it.

Locally we had a scare this year when the water works changed to ammonia and chlorine combinations which, it turned out, leached the lead out of copper tubing joints. Kids started to show up in school with symptoms. They tried to hide the fact that they had picked a bad mixture, and eventually quietly changed it, and we have no heard a word about it since.

[J. Clarke]

It&#39;s not solid metallic lead, it&#39;s "white lead" or lead carbonate [(PbCO3)2·Pb(OH)2] powder, generally mixed with calcium carbonate and linseed oil.

[George Conklin]

I read this year of a woman who ate food which her group (husband?) hunted. Her appendix was full of lead, a lifetime accumulation from eating water fowl shot with shotguns.

[J. Clarke]

Shot collecting in the appendix is apparently not uncommon. If it&#39;s lead shot then lead toxicity can result.

[George]

Everyone has a story about some relative about how they drank a quart of booze a day/smoked 5 packs/cleaned their hands with solvent every day/turned brown from the sun from working on a tuna trawler/mined uranium etc and they lived to some ripe old age so therefore it is evidence that that activity is OK.

All of the wisdom about causation of cancer pretty much points to having a genetic predisposition which is "switched on" by a stimulus such as radiation (nuclear or UV), exposure to chemicals or whatever. So the reality is handle/expose yourself to whatever you want with abandon only if you feel lucky.

[George Conklin]

I know lead is not a good thing to work with.

[Kris Krieger]

ransley wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Uh, Pat isn&#39;t the one who wrote/passed that regulation...he is adressing potential propblems arising out of the regulation. In what way is that "out of touch with reality"?

[Kris Krieger]

ransley wrote in news:42705436-bcde-4982-a636- [e-mail]:

Ever look into buying a house that turned out to have major renovation work with no permit? What a mess - best to pass it by as fast as possible.

Frst, Pat had mentioned that the reg. applies to houses built prior to

1978. Second, painting a wall or tacking up some panelling is not "renovation" - simple painting doesn&#39;t create dust from sawing, hammering, relocating support beams, and so on. THe dust is what could carry old layers of lead paint into the air. If a homeowner does somethign that major withour a permit, uh, "bad things" can happen. You can run afoul of any homeowner&#39;s association, and of the city and possibly state.

Even if the bozo gets away with it for a while, I have seen that very sort of thing put the kabosh on selling the place.

[Kris Krieger]

Pat wrote in news: [e-mail]:

The Romans used to use lead as a flavoring.

HTH

[J. Clarke]

Learn something every day. That explains much. And it&#39;s much more compelling than the "lead pipes" theory.

[Kris Krieger]

"J. Clarke" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I actually don&#39;t know how much lead (from pipes) would eb dissolved into water - I&#39;d haev to aska chemist. But they used lead fro pretty much everything it seems, fromlining cups and other food vessels, to everyday items and utensils, and so on. It might not have been any one thing, but when you add it all up together, what&#39;s most amazing to me is that *any* of them survived.

I also heard or read that the ROmans has double-paned windows - they weer very rare (expensive item, glass), but still fascinating.

[HeyBub]

Considering it took Rome longer to fall than the U.S. has been in existence, the alternative explanation is that the hype over lead is, um, exaggerated.