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On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 5:15:51 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Good grief. There are all kinds of repairs where you don't know for sure if it's going to work or if it's going to last. A repair guy isn't superman with X-ray vision. You could fix one leak and maybe they know from experience that with the crap systems today that only last 10 to 15 years, that once you have one leak, you typically have more in another year or two. I'm not saying I know that for a fact, just that just maybe the companies involved may know from experience more than those of us that don't service these every day. Also, these systems are greatly affected by the competence of the installers. If you don't give a damn, contaminate the thing when you install it, then they are not going to last, have a higher failure rate, etc. How about the tech sees a tag on the eqpt that says "XYZ HVAC" and he knows they are shysters and their systems have lots of problems?

As reported, he topped it off a month or so ago and it worked for a month until apparently the refrigerant was gone, again.

And then after $500 or $1000 worth of work, the customer says "you didn't fix it, I'm not paying". You obviously don't have experience with how many people operate today. They forget what was told to them and/or ignore what's in writing. Or you fix it and six months later, it craps out again. Many customers are going to be kind of like you..... "Mr. Repair guy, you should have made sure that it was going to last before you fixed it." With a new system, you avoid all that.

You're jumping to the conclusion that a new system is totally unjustified. It's possible the companies have experience and know what often happens and are basing their advice in part on that. And I never tried to tell you or anyone that the right choice was a new system. In fact, in the original post, I said that if it were my system, I would have insisted they search for the source of the actual leak and then make the determination. But on the other hand, these systems seem to last 10 to 15 years today. This one was already 5 years old with most of that previous history unknown. I'm not sure how much more I'd put into it. That original service call was probably $200+. Fixing a leak, even if it doesn't involve a new evaporator, etc is going to cost hundreds more.
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Robert Green wrote:

rip you off. I do most maintenance myself even if I have to invest some special tools. Gives me peace of mind. Only thing I am not good at is carpentry. Maybe because I am lefty.
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<stuff snipped>

Respectfully disagree, Mr. Hwang. To be able to protect yourself from fraudsters typically requires having a lot of information and education the average person just doesn't have. It's not just a problem with cars, but with home repairs, choosing doctors, etc.
Say you're on the NJ Turnpike and you stop for gas and while you're getting fueled you go to the men's room. When you come back to the car, a mechanic, acting like a genuine hero, says (after sprinkling iron filings) your fan belt is going to fail in very short order. If you're the average guy and not much of a mechanic, you'd think about what happens if your fan fails somewhere further down the road, or at night and perhaps decide to let him "adjust it."

I wouldn't say most everywhere, but it's getting more and more prevalent as technology gets more and more complicated. Compare the Chrysler Air Temp furnance (from the 40's) that was here when I moved in. I could fix it myself because it was utterly simple. Not so the modern furnace. How many people (outside of AHR) know what a draft inducer motor is or why such a (relatively) cheap item could cause total furnace failure?

I used to, too but age has curtailed a lot of my ability to do things like crawl under cars. Worse, yet, when I watch people work I often shudder at how poorly they've been trained.

(-; You "sinister" person, you!
http://wordinfo.info/unit/3777/s:and
In the study of origins, it was always better to be "right" than wrong, or even "left"! Words associated with the right side are generally complimentary or have signified something desirable, but those pointing to the left are quite the opposite. For example, even in modern times, everyone tries to get up on the "right" side of the bed and hopes to stay on the "right" side of one's boss; that is, if the person is in his/her "right" mind.
Other languages reflect the same bias in favor of the right and against the left. In Latin, the word for "right" is dexter, from which has come the English word dexterous or dextrous; meaning "skillful". This is what a person who uses the "right" hand is expected to be.
An ambidextrous person should be even more skillful, since he is described as having two "right hands.
On the other hand, the Latin sinister is the left hand, that is, the wrong hand. Furthermore, left-handers were thought to be unlucky.
In Roman augury, or fortune telling, birds that appeared on the left side were interpreted as being bad luck; however, those on the right side presaged good luck. Now, in modern English applications, sinister means evil or ominous.
"Lefties" have not been regarded with a positive attitude even in French and Old English The French word for "left" is gauche (GOHSH), which indicates awkwardness or lack of social graces. "A guest who drinks from the finger bowl, no matter how dexterously he handles it, is still gauche."
English also has favored the right over the left. The word "right" developed from Old English riht, which meant "to lead straight; to guide; to rule." Left evolved from Old English lyft, which meant "weak".
English prejudice against the left can be seen in such terms as "two left feet", meaning "awkward", and "left-handed compliment", which is not considered as a compliment!
-Excerpts from The Story Behind the Word by Morton S. Freeman; iSi Press; Philadelphia; 1985; pages 228-229.
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wrote in message

I couldn't agree more. I used to do all my own repairs (home, appliance, auto, electrical, etc.) but can't anymore. Technology has taken over, and what used to be a simple auto repair takes lots of tech knowledge and sometimes special tools and meters. I gave up about five years ago. Now I hire repairmen, and I have to ask myself 'do I trust this repairman, or not?', and live with the consequences, good or bad.
Long story short...A few months ago, my 18 year old AC was not cooling. A new fan was installed, but the problem persisted. Then I was told it was the compressor, and that they could replace the entire system, including the furnace, for $10K. I called another company in for a second opinion. The second opinion was that the first company installed the wrong fan. It turned out they did install the wrong fan. I went back to the first company, and they had egg on their face. They came out and installed the proper fan, and it's been cool since.
I complained to their customer service manager, that they almost cost me $10K, and I asked for reimbursement for the second opinion. They reimbursed me for the cost of the second opinion, and gave me a 12-month service contract on both my solar and HVAC equipment, free.

This left/thing has always fascinated me. I once heard that left handed people were on average, smarter than right handed people. I began observing left handed people, and they were mostly my bosses. I'm right handed.
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On 7/22/2015 9:06 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If it leaks out in a month, should be a fairly slow leak. Ought to be possible to find and fix the leak.
I've got a couple "friends" who had a leaky system. I'd valved it off, and put in some test charge, to determine if it was indoor or outdoor leak. Called several times to follow up. No answer. Met them later, and they told me they "just had the system replaced". But aparently, not by me. Some friends, eh?
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On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:49:10 -0400, Stormin Mormon

It happens a lot. There seems to be some kind of dynamic going on where people don't like to see a friend making money if it's "off them". My Dad was a RE Broker and told his friends if they were buying a new house to go thru him and he could get them half the commission back. A few would but most would just go straight to the Home Sales Office and cut him out and also cut themselves out to the tune of thousand$ in lost commission they could have split. A lot of the time they's day 'Oh we didn't want to bother you" as if anyone would be bothered by spending a couple hours to make a couple thousand... not to mention the people themselves were also losing out on a couple thousand.
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On 7/23/2015 10:03 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Some people refuse to do business with close friends, figures it risks the friendship. One of the men I consider a close friend, just exactly that. Had AC put into his house, but not by me.
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