Knob & Tube and Cloth Shielded Wiring

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Just my $0.02 here; I lived for neary 30 years in a neighborhood with 120 + year old homes. At one time I owned 4 rentals in additon to my own home. All were insured. About 10 years ago I moved to a "new" neighborhood of larger houses with larger yards; the average age of a house here I would estimated to be "only" 80 -100 years. Many of these homes had K&T systems making up some part of their electrical system.
I know dozens of howmowners besides myself. It surely may be different in different areas, but I've never heard of a single instance of an insurance co even _asking_ about what type of wiring was in a home, and except in connection with a claim, I've never heard of an insurance company sending someone inside a home to inspect the wiring or anything else.
Now appraisers are a different story...
--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - snipped-for-privacy@charm.net
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I HAVE A GOOD IDEA, WHEN AND IF THE OP SELLS HIS HOME WOULD HE PLEASE REPORT BACK HERE WITH THE OUTCOME?
MY INSURANCE AGENT SAID homeowners used to be a cash cow, but after the major hurricane losses the underwriters started looking closely to minimize all future losses.
so 5 years ago K&T may have been no problem but today its a showstopper.
or may raise insurance premiums a LOT.......
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when was that? sorry its no longer a sellers market and the fact remains most insurance companies will not write new policies on home with K&T and a buyer CANT buy a home without homeowners insurance and even a cash buyer will want homeowners.......
Thje OPs home isnt saleable as is and this problem must by law be disclosed to all future buyers.
It cost big bucks to keep a vacant home alive, insurance, utilities, repairs.
might be better off to reconsider that buyer................
there is NO FIX short of rewiring that will make that K&T disappear
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You squawk a lot about the impossibility of insuring houses with K&T wiring. I can tell you for a fact, as a licensed electrical contractor for over thirty years, I have MANY customers in Westchester county, NY with K&T in their homes, and believe it or not, they ALL have homeowner insurance

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On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 17:00:40 -0500, "RBM" <rbm2(remove

I'm not in Westchester County, I'm in Monroe County, NY, and I do have homeowner's insurance for full replacement value of my house, built in 1930, which I'm also sure has K&T throughout the house (we moved in here in April 2003 and met a really nice 60 amp circuit breaker box, which we immediately upgraded to 200 amps). Yes, I'd love to replace it all, but I'm first putting in new circuits as a way of taking entire areas of the house off of what I consider to be overloaded circuits.
A house with K&T is not unsaleable necessarily. Take a chill pill, hallberb.

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Your house is typical of early twentieth century houses, and like you, incrementally folks disconnect sections of the old wiring and run new wiring. Fact is K&T wiring has held up quite well, and if the powers that be didn't change to a grounded system around the fifties, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation

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KLS wrote:

I challenge you and espically the OP to call a major insurer like state farm allstate etc and ask if they WILL INSURE A NEW CUSTOMER BUYING A K&T WIRED HOME TODAY!
Someone else posted they HAD to upgrade to get rid of K&T to have insurance, a good friend had that happen too. after his homeowners company was sold.
insurance today is risk adverse.
I stand by my statement!
state farm is just one example they dont write new policies on K&T homes but do keep existing customers. State farm said if theres a fire or claim they require K&T is elminated
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You can stand by your statement , and you can be wrong. I'm sure insurance companies won't write policies on "bad wiring" regardless of the type, but obviously there are many houses with K&T that are insured
wrote:

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RBM remove this wrote:

AGAIN:( Call state farm and ask buying a home with K&T in perfect shape will you provide homeowners insurance?
Then post back my agent says NO WAY!
Existing policies are not effected, but sell or try changing companies and you lose:(
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Am I to assume you've investigated this claim with the six hundred or so insurance companies in the US?.... or just your neighbor and your insurance agent

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RBM remove this wrote:

My friend will koehler was pretty upset and reported he called about 20 companies they ALL said NO.
He unhappily had his home rewired at much expense........
I have romex and BX so I wouldnt bother calling the remaining companies:)
now why dont YOU call a few and report your findings!
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Haller, the point is: I don't care!!! The point is YOU making these definitive statements, based on a few accounts, as if NO ONE can get insurance if they have K&T wiring. If you are going to be that definitive, you have an obligation to prove it.

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RBM (remove this) wrote:

others HERE reported they HAD to upgrade to get homeowners.........
isnt that sufficent?
anyone who questions this just call and ask espically the OP and do ask about rates since they may not be affordable:((
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Others HERE reported they could get insurance
isnt that sufficient?
You can't generalize your experiences to the whole country.
Getting insurance with k&T wiring may or may not be a problem depending on area and insurance company.
And K&T wiring is not a defect under the NEC and there is nothing to disclose (unless local codes don't allow its continued use).
-- bud--
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com spake thus:

It's "risk averse"--sheesh, why does everyone get that one wrong? And insurers have *always* been risk-averse. Nothing new there.
--
Just as McDonald\'s is where you go when you\'re hungry but don\'t really
care about the quality of your food, Wikipedia is where you go when
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Hello toAll...............As the original poster on the K&T and cloth wiring questions I certainly appreciate all the input and observations. First when I sell the house I will definitely repost the results as requested. As to the insurance. I only purchased the house ( upstate NY) 5 years ago and I bought full fire/casualty/etc. insurance and had no problems insuring it. From what I've read here I certainly don't want to deal with State Farm in spite of their commercials. However, I am still unclear what changing to breaker panel does for me (with the exception that it will look more modern) if the current wiring still remains ungrounded. Also if I do run "green" wire to the current fuse panel ground and then change the receptacles to 3-prong will I now be in violation because the K&T and cloth would no longer have ungrounded 2-prong receptacles? Also because all the wiring is grandfathered and no work has been done to it the NYS real estate board says that this does NOT require to be disclosed as a major defect nor because someone says it is a major defect. The reason I checked this was that the (now fired) real estate woman who had decided to appoint herself as the authority on all things electrical and structural insisted I add the wiring as a MAJOR PROBLEM. Be all that as it may however, I would like to come up with a solution if there is one that wasn't just "tear it all out". I'd rather not spend 15% of the selling price just to say to a buyer look new panel. Once again thanks for all the input. John

gas;
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work.
200
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input
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John F. F. wrote:

Few insurance companies will provide homeowners insurance for fuse boxes anymore, too many people say well a 15 amp blows, so make it a 20 amp, oh what the heck \\ heres a 30:(. I have a good friend like that who has K&T and 30 amp fuses on 14 gauge wiring, one day his home will cease to exist:(
Have you found a new realtor who doesnt call the wiring a problem? if a realtor knowling covers up or assists in covering up or is even part of this their agency can be sued or even lose their license.
Just to play devils advocate you have only owned this home 5 years.... what about the 100 years previous? how can you be certain someone didnt muck with it?
Having sold a home 2 years ago its horrible and I certinally wish you the best but fear any buyer you get will want the wiring replaced:(
curious is your home priced much less than surrounding ones? 40 grand today is pretty cheap, in california the exact same home would likey be half a million bucks.
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Once again your information is incorrect. "S" type fuse adapters can be screwed into the plug fuse sockets and only the proper size fuse can be used. They are UL approved and happen to be safer in many respects that circuit breakers, and I'd rather doubt any insurance company would have an issue with them

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RBM (remove this) wrote:

Again many insurance companies today wouldnt insure any home with a fuse box for NEW custonmers.....
have you bothered to call some agents and ASK, getting some solid current info?
curious what other things do you buy that has a lifetime of over 100 years like K&T wiring?
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I prefer to buy very little that doesn't look like it could last 100 years if it had to! I don't understand our throwaway society...
nate
--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
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