kitchen circuits 15 amp vs 20 amp outlets

PMFJI, but please see 2005 NEC 210.23(A)

[QUOTE]

(A) 15- and 20-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 15- or 20-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply lighting units or other utilization equipment, or a combination of both, and shall comply with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).

Exception: The small appliance branch circuits, laundry branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling unit(s) by 210.11(C) (1), (C)(2), and (C)(3) shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section.

[/QUOTE]
Reply to
Seth Goodman
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Right... The refrigerator outlet in most dwellings is on a different circuit than the 2 required 20A countertop appliance outlets. These outlets are suppose to be for coffee pots, microwave ovens, broillers, blenders, can openers, etc. Two of them are needed because most of these kitchen appliances consume lots of power.

Also note that the fridge outlet is one of the few exceptions that should not be on a GFCI outlet, lest it nuisance trip while you are out of town and spoil your food. The NEC recognizes this, even though the prevailing sentiment will be to require GFCI's on just about all outlet circuits in future codes.

Beachcomber

Reply to
Beachcomber

Right... but since Code requires two small appliance circuits in a kitchen, a

*third* outlet circuit could supply virtually any other loads as well, because that third circuit is not a "small appliance branch circuit ... required ... by 210.11(C) ..." and thus not subject to that restriction.
Reply to
Doug Miller

Correct, the two OR MORE small appliance circuits can't serve any other outlets except the "receptacle outlets" listed and you can add other outlets in these areas that are not part of the requirement. My reply was to a guy that wanted to add a lighting outlet to the SAME circuit as a small appliance receptacle is on

Reply to
RBM

I don't consider a light *fixture* (e.g. a ceiling light) as an outlet, and neither does the Code

I th>>You don't consider lighting outlets as "other outlets"?

Reply to
RBM

The code doesn't require *exactly* two. It requires at *least* two.

See 210.52(B)(3) "Kitchen Receptacle Requirements", which says "not fewer than two small appliance branch circuits". Other sections use the term "at least two". You can have as many as you want >= 2, but if they supply kitchen outlets, they are still small appliance branch circuits, and must obey code. There are some exceptions, but none that would allow supplying a light fixture on the same circuit as a refrigerator. As RBM suggested earlier, there's nothing to prevent one from plugging in a light (such as a night light) on the same circuit as the refrigerator (unless it's a dedicated refrigerator circuit).

If you still disagree, please provide Code cites. If you don't own a copy of the NEC, you can read it on-line at:

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Reply to
Seth Goodman

I stand corrected.

Reply to
Doug Miller

It does in the 1999 codebook. "Outlet" is a term of the art that means "thing that uses electricity". The term for what you plug a cord into is "receptacle". Most of the time it's a distiction without a difference.

Reply to
Goedjn

Just for clarification, you're asserting that any receptacle that is in a kitchen, reguardless of where in the kitchen it is, is therefore a small-appliance branch circut? (and thus must be 20 Amps, GFCI protected, and not connected to anything else?) (and excepting individual receptacles dedicated to single fixed devices, like a freezer, refer, or stove?)

--Goedjn

Reply to
Goedjn

RBM wrote: > I don't consider a light *fixture* (e.g. a ceiling light) as an > outlet, and neither does the Code >

"Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lamp-holder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendant cord terminating in a lamp-holder.

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. ["An example is a lighting outlet or a receptacle outlet." Handbook Commentary]

Power Outlet. An enclosed assembly that may include receptacles, circuit breakers, fuse-holders, fused switches, buses, and watt-hour meter mounting means; intended to supply and control power to mobile homes, recreational vehicles, park trailers, or boats or to serve as a means for distributing power required to operate mobile or temporarily installed equipment.

Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed." Copyright 2002 National Fire Protection Association

The quoted material above is from the National Electric Code. Would you mind sharing which code you were referring to.

Reply to
Tom Horne, Electrician

Sounds like a trick question - all I was asserting was that you can't put a lighting fixture on the same circuit as a refrigerator.

Your generalization may be true, but I'll leave the proof as an exercise for the reader. ;-)

Reply to
Seth Goodman

I¹ve seen, and have, the 20 amp outlets that are meant to accommodate a

20 amp plug. But, I have never seen or known of any appliance, perhaps with the exception of an air conditioner, that uses this plug. So why are these outlets needed in the kitchen?
Reply to
Larry Weil

A 20A circuits feeding the kitchen, yes, spending the extra $ for 20A outlets to put on that circuit when you will *never* find a kitchen appliance in any consumer store that actually has a 20A plug, no.

I used 20A GFCIs and 20A spec grade outlets in my shop where they may actually see 20A plugs from time to time, but everything in the house is

15A GFCI where needed (they are rated 20A feed through) and 15A outlets where GFCIs are not needed. Everything is on 20A circuits though, not a single 15A circuit anywhere in the house and no 14ga wire anywhere either, not even lighting circuits.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

When the code states that the small appliance circuits can't be shared with other "outlets", by the very definition, that you point out, if you read the commentary, "outlet" includes all types of outlets

Reply to
RBM

And the code still doesn't allow you to share the required small appliance circuits with "other outlets"

Reply to
RBM

Why do you assume that I'm arguing with you. Did I hit respond to the wrong posting?

Reply to
Tom Horne, Electrician

I could be mistaken, but that sounds like an argument to me

Reply to
RBM

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