kitchen circuits 15 amp vs 20 amp outlets

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Correct, the two OR MORE small appliance circuits can't serve any other outlets except the "receptacle outlets" listed and you can add other outlets in these areas that are not part of the requirement. My reply was to a guy that wanted to add a lighting outlet to the SAME circuit as a small appliance receptacle is on
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Nov 2006 11:33:21 GMT, Doug Miller wrote:

The code doesn't require *exactly* two. It requires at *least* two.
See 210.52(B)(3) "Kitchen Receptacle Requirements", which says "not fewer than two small appliance branch circuits". Other sections use the term "at least two". You can have as many as you want >= 2, but if they supply kitchen outlets, they are still small appliance branch circuits, and must obey code. There are some exceptions, but none that would allow supplying a light fixture on the same circuit as a refrigerator. As RBM suggested earlier, there's nothing to prevent one from plugging in a light (such as a night light) on the same circuit as the refrigerator (unless it's a dedicated refrigerator circuit).
If you still disagree, please provide Code cites. If you don't own a copy of the NEC, you can read it on-line at: http://nfpa-acs-01.gvpi.net:8080/rrserver/browser?title=/NFPASTD/7005SB
You'll need to allow Java and pop-ups.
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Seth Goodman

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I stand corrected.
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Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Just for clarification, you're asserting that any receptacle that is in a kitchen, reguardless of where in the kitchen it is, is therefore a small-appliance branch circut? (and thus must be 20 Amps, GFCI protected, and not connected to anything else?) (and excepting individual receptacles dedicated to single fixed devices, like a freezer, refer, or stove?)
--Goedjn
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2006 11:04:31 -0500, Goedjn wrote:

Sounds like a trick question - all I was asserting was that you can't put a lighting fixture on the same circuit as a refrigerator.
Your generalization may be true, but I'll leave the proof as an exercise for the reader. ;-)
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Seth Goodman

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And the code still doesn't allow you to share the required small appliance circuits with "other outlets"
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RBM wrote:

The code only prohibits having lighting outlets on the counter top receptacle circuits and although it permits the refrigerator to be supplied from such a circuit it does not require that. So a receptacle placed behind a refrigerator so as to be inaccessible for counter top use could be supplied from a lighting circuit.
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Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
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Right... The refrigerator outlet in most dwellings is on a different circuit than the 2 required 20A countertop appliance outlets. These outlets are suppose to be for coffee pots, microwave ovens, broillers, blenders, can openers, etc. Two of them are needed because most of these kitchen appliances consume lots of power.
Also note that the fridge outlet is one of the few exceptions that should not be on a GFCI outlet, lest it nuisance trip while you are out of town and spoil your food. The NEC recognizes this, even though the prevailing sentiment will be to require GFCI's on just about all outlet circuits in future codes.
Beachcomber
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FWIW: a couple of code books back, back stabbing of 12 gauge conductors became illegal and outlet manufacturers reduced the size of the back stab holes so only 14 gauge will fit

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Ive seen, and have, the 20 amp outlets that are meant to accommodate a 20 amp plug. But, I have never seen or known of any appliance, perhaps with the exception of an air conditioner, that uses this plug. So why are these outlets needed in the kitchen?
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Larry Weil
Lake Wobegone, NH
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Joseph Meehan wrote:

A 20A circuits feeding the kitchen, yes, spending the extra $ for 20A outlets to put on that circuit when you will *never* find a kitchen appliance in any consumer store that actually has a 20A plug, no.
I used 20A GFCIs and 20A spec grade outlets in my shop where they may actually see 20A plugs from time to time, but everything in the house is 15A GFCI where needed (they are rated 20A feed through) and 15A outlets where GFCIs are not needed. Everything is on 20A circuits though, not a single 15A circuit anywhere in the house and no 14ga wire anywhere either, not even lighting circuits.
Pete C.
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15a outlets are fine, unless there is just one outlet on the circuit; then it has to be 20a. Only reason to have a 20a outlet is to fit a 20a plug.
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A DUPLEX outlet ( the standard type) is 2 outlets, not one, and thus a 15 amp duplex can actually be used alone on a 20 amp circuit, though in a kitchen the more outlets the better so you might as well have more. When I did my kitchen I used the 20 amp ones though to be honest I have never even seen a 20 amp kitchen appliance, I just thought they 'might' be made a little heavier duty than a 15 amp ones..probably wishful thinking but the price difference wasn't much.
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Mike S.

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All the 15A outlets at the big stores are actually rated to 20A but only have 15A plugs. That is required by code, from what I understand. Thus, you can use them on a 20A circuit. In fact, if you look at a 15A GFCI outlet, you'll see that they rate the secondary feed circuit (the tabs for more outlets) at 20A.
Mikey S. states an interesting point about a duplex outlet being 2 devices. I wasn't sure how that works with code, so I just put in a real 20A GFCI duplex outlet on the dedicated circuit in my new bathroom. The uncertainty wasn't worth possibly failing an inspection. Now it's the only place in the house where I could plug in my arc welder!
-rev
tr wrote:

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On 15 Nov 2006 12:48:36 -0800, "The Reverend Natural Light"

I think they's call that a 20A GFCI.

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Mark Lloyd
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I can't say exactly what you call them, but you can buy a GFCI with 15A plugs that'll feed a 20A circuit or a GFCI with 20A plugs that'll also feed a 20A circuit. They're both the same internally, of course, but one has the different shaped plug and costs 3X as much.
-rev
Mark Lloyd wrote:

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Quite right Rev, it's called a 20 amp feed through

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