Killing fire ant colony under house - concrete slab so no crawl space

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Hey Guys --
I've posted a thread or two about this over the last few months, but I figured I'd start a new thread since my question is alittle different.
Basically our problem is over 3 months ago we found our house was being invaded by fire ants coming up through the sand trap under one of our bathtubs. Our bug guy, who has already rid the yard of ants and about any other type of insect, used Termidor which seemed to kill them there, but now they're entering through any other opening in the house they can find, like around the toilet, under the second bathroom sink, and even through the pipes feeding our washer in the laundry room. Mind you these locations are all 10-20 feet apart.
He's sprayed the bathroom and laundry room pipes inside the wall with Termidor, and I've sprayed around the toilet with Ortho Home Defense, but given there's obviously a colony of ants under the house and we have a concrete slab what recourse do we have short of drilling holes in the concrete, which even that is a crap shoot since we have no idea where the colony is.
The bug guy said Termidor should in time work, hopefully within 3 weeks to 3 months, which it's been alittle over a month since he sprayed the first time, but I'm afraid that might not be enough. There are literally zero ants in the yard, so they are sustaining themselves on whatever's under the house, which it's only 7 months old so there can't be much.
So are we just destined to have ants from now on? Am I not giving Termidor enough time to work? I've not read one case where it didn't work, but with a baby and toddler I really can't afford to wait too long. The bug guy has done a great job trying to fight back, but he said he's even dumbfounded as to why they're being so aggressive since it seems that we're doing a great job cutting off their food source. Is our case just that unique?
Anyway, thanks for any advice anyone has.
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:26:03 -0800, Alex wrote:

Buy a couple pet anteaters http://goo.gl/UqjtD
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He said these are FIRE ants. Everyone knows anteaters don't eat FIRE ants. Nothing does. Bob-tx
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On 12/16/10 6:52 AM, Bob-tx wrote:

My BIL's turkeys love to find a fire-ant mound and eat all the ants.
But would fire ants nest under a slab? I thought they needed mounds for solar heat.
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responding to http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/Killing-fire-ant-colony-under-house-concrete-slab-so-no-cr-609810-.htm frits@scottsmiraclegro wrote: Recommend trying Ortho Home Defense Max Indoor and Perimeter, which is labeled for fire ants. Can apply this around perimeters where ants are coming into the house. As they walk across is they pick up the active ingredient. Safe for reentry with adults and children after the product has completely dried.
------------------------------------- frits@scottsmiraclegro
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throw some water on them to put out the fire.
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I've found the most effective thing for invading ants is hmemade bait using borax and sugar or peanut butter. There are a recipies on the internet. If they don't take the sugar based one then switch to the proten one (peanut butter). Takes a few days. The borax mix kills slowly so they have time to take the food back to the colony.
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On Dec 16, 8:37am, frits.rizor_at_scotts_dot snipped-for-privacy@foo.com (frits@scottsmiraclegro) wrote:

Seems not.
<q>What it Controls Insects: Kills Roaches, Ants, Fleas, Ticks, Spiders, Earwigs, Silverfish and other listed insects. Up to 12 month control indoors for listed insects: Crickets, Spiders (excluding Black Widow and Brown Recluse), Carpet Beetles, Earwigs, Firebrats, Moths and Silverfish.</ q> http://www.orthohomedefense.com/smg/catalog/productTemplate.jsp?proId=prod70044&itemId=cat10040001&tabs=usage
http://tinyurl.com/ohdmiap -----
- gpsman
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gpsman wrote:

A fire ant is still an ant.
--

dadiOH
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drill into slab and inject your favorite long acting poision underneath the slab, then seal up any know entrances
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To those who know nothing or less about ants. http://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/articles/tf0053.aspx
And I stand corrected, kind of.
While Ortho Home Defense Max Indoor and Perimeter is not specifically labeled for fire ants, its active ingredient, Bifenthrin, is, but I wouldn't recommend their 0.05% concentration. -----
- gpsman
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frits.rizor_at_scotts_dot snipped-for-privacy@foo.com (frits@scottsmiraclegro) wrote:

Ive gotten great ant control with boric acid and oil of pennyroyal . Can't use the pennyroyal in you living quarter but OK in a basement. Ants dislike the smell we like it for 10 minutes then it is cloying. I go the the drug store for very pure small particle size. Mix 1 teaspond with a cup of sugar. Place it under a rock or in a glass cup or small bowl container. Lasts years.
Never had fire ants but some folks sort of say give it a try and the MSDS is not too bad.
http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1318.html
Here is a gogle search for boric acid and fire ants.
http://www.google.com/search?q=fire%20ant%20boric%20acid&ie=utf-8&oe=utf - 8
I'm only passing this info because I sat on a bench once and the bastards let me know it was their nest area.
--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

"Always tell the truth and you don't have to remember anything."
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Alex wrote:

You may have to dig a moat around your slab and fill it with toxic chemicals.
--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.
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*Many years ago my sister suddenly had an invasion of ants in her slab built townhome which was several years old at the time. They were coming out in the bathrooms and kitchen from where the pipes penetrated the walls. She tried hardware store ant traps to no avail. She called an exterminator who took specimens to an entomologist who identified the specific species of ant. The exterminator came back with traps similar to the hardware store type, but were for that species and within days the ants were gone and have not been back since.
I am no expert, but I thought the correct treatment is to have the ants take the poison bait back to the nest thereby killing all of the occupants.
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 19:20:21 -0500, John Grabowski wrote:

CHA CHING! We have a Winner! Pick your prize up at the door.
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Granular bait by Bayer and Spectracide has worked on my Carpenter ants. They take it back to the nest. sprays dont last or do anything unless you hit the nest inside. I had a crooked spray man, Im much richer now learning he was a crook as I know most are from my real experiance. Ive found Mr Spray Bug is usualy a bug himself, bugging for $
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I'll tell you what I think I know, from reading, c. 1999, my last year as a PCO with no hands-on fire ant experience.
Termidor is not labeled for fire ants, or indoor residential application. You need a new PCO, and your money back.
And I'd return that Ortho stuff. We called Raid and that kind of crap "liquid foot". Sure, it'll kill most things, if you spray it directly on them, but it has no more persistence than stepping on them (no matter what the label says).
Ants in general can be tricky to treat, and you don't want to be half- stepping. Stress a colony and it may split. You might not see ants for months, then they come roaring back.
You should contact your local Dept. of Ag. county extension agent. They should be familiar with the best pest control companies.
It's a short list of materials that are effective for fire ants, possibly made shorter by your state EPA. Dursban would probably be my choice, if your new PCO is licensed to use it and your state allows it. It stinks to high heaven, and keeps stinking for a good while.
Still, exclusion is an essential defense. You need to close their accesses to the home interior and move the fight outside. -----
- gpsman
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Hi gpsman,
After our bug guy used it I did some research and saw it's only suggested to use outside and they didn't list Fire Ants even though they didn't specifically say it didn't work on them. I've read on a few other pest control sites that Termidor has been used in the manor in which our bug guy used it with great success, and honestly after he put it down it did pretty much stop it for a few weeks -- but now they're starting to trickle back in.
I'm thinking and really hoping that the ants are hanging around due to a toilet in one of our bathrooms which we just discovered was leaking. The tile grout under the toilet has started turning colors, so we have a plumber hopefully coming out tomorrow to check it out and reseal the toilet. While it's pulled I hope to use cement caulk to seal around the pipe so with this plus a newly sealed toilet hopefully that'll cut of one place where the ants might be getting water.
But not unlike getting a second opinion on anything else, I'm thinking of calling another pest control company just to see what they'd suggest. The one I'm using is highly recommended in our area, but as I said I think our case is rather unprecedented even from what I'm reading online. I hate to think we'd need to treat this like a termite extermination with drilling holes in the concrete, but who knows.
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On 12/16/2010 10:06 AM, Alex wrote:

Fire ant infestations of the magnitude you describe aren't normally isolated problems. Your county extension service (or state) should have information and the best practices for eliminating them. Off-the-shelf remedies are unlikely to get rid of them. Amdro is a great bait that worked on our Florida lawn infestations, but ours were never an indoor problem. Caulking around all the pipe entries through the slab, and sealing off the unpaved areas under tubs, would be a primary concern....if your area is dry, the fire ants may be entering the house looking for moisture. Have you tried calling your homeowners' insurance company?
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What you see is probably scouts, they come in from the outside seeking food and water and go back and "tell" the others. They also take back the Termidier with them. If it was applied correctly they will go back to there colony and poision it. This is the way Termidor is supposed to work sO from time to time you will probably see ants especially near sources that would attract them. I often see new ant beds in my yard but none of them ever achive any significant size.
Jimmie
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