Kenmore front-loading washer leaks

[happysegfault]

Hi all,

I have a 3.5 year old Kenmore front-loading washing machine, model number 417.41042000 or 41042, that has been leaking water for almost a year now. I've decided it might be time to work on it.

The tub on this washer has two halves with a seal in the middle. When the washer is in a spin cycle, and only when there are clothes in it (to make it vibrate some), I can see some water dribbling out from the joint between the two halves of the tub on the right-hand side. Since this is the side where the motor speed control unit is, I'd like to prevent that getting shorted out. (At the moment, the quantity of water coming out is not enough that I worry about that yet.)

I'm thinking of taking the washer apart and replacing the seal. Sears.com has a replacement seal for $9.49, which doesn't sound too bad, but I'm wondering if there are any tricks to this repair. It looks like I need to take off the top and back panels, unhook everything from the tub assembly, turn it onto its back, and then lift off the cabinet. Am I headed for trouble doing this myself?

Thanks, John

[jeff]

Hi,

Have you tried to tighten the tub bolts?

Yes.

Boot is undone from the front panal, remove or undo drive motor, shock pins, WLC switch/hose, drain hoses and lift of off the springs and remove the whole assembly out through the back of the washer. Then the two 1/2's can be seperated to replace that seal.

Not overly difficult but *very* time consuming.

jeff. Appliance Repair Aid

[happysegfault]

I did try tightening some of the tub bolts, but I couldn't reach the ones at the sides very well because of the tight clearance with the cabinet side. The bolts I could reach were not very tight, so it does seem like a good idea to give torquing them down with a flexible-drive tool a try.

Thanks for the reply---that method does sound more straightforward. I had read the "flip it on its back" method somewhere, though, so I guess I thought that was the way people do it.

Best regards, John

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I hope the leakage hasn't resulted in damage to the bearings.

We have a 417.41142000, made by Frigidaire and perhaps a little newer than yours but maybe substantially the same. The service guy was here to fix it last week (crapped-out controller module replaced free under maintenance contract; would have been $330 for part and labor otherwise).

He said one problem with these is water getting into the bearings, often caused by using regular detergent instead of the low-sudsing High-Efficiency kind. The remedy is to replace the whole tub/shaft/bearing assembly (because the bearings are not sold separately), which is a two-man two-hour job costing $800 for parts and labor -- in which case you'd be better off buying a new machine.

Hope that's not what you're in for. Happy Thanksgiving.

Perce

On 11/24/04 09:22 pm [e-mail] tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

[Mad Mac]

There have been issues both with the two halves leaking and the bearing leak. Both are nasty, time-intensive repairs involving an almost total teardown of the machine.

The fact that you've managed to identify the level of disassembly required to replace the seal gives me confidence that you'll be able to do it. Don't forget to disconnect the shock absorbers from the tub - best way to do this is to put a socket over the pointed end of the nylon "pin" that holds them in and tap gently, this should get them out.

Good luck!

[Happy Segfault]

Thanks to all who replied! About the rear seal---I've seen some pictures on the web of a similar unit which had that seal fail and cause the bearing to corrode. Not a pretty sight! Knock on wood, I'm pretty sure I'm only getting water leaking out of the other seal between the two tub halves. The rear area stays nice and dry while the water spritzes out of the problem seal.

Other than the leak, the washer runs great---very smooth and quiet. We've been using regular liquid detergent in it, but only about 3/8" in the cup each load. Looking in the window, I don't see any evidence of over-sudsing, and clothes come out clean. A bottle of detergent sure goes a long way, too!

I'd have started working on it this afternoon, but my 8.5 year old Lift-Master Professional garage door opener had turned a plastic gear into powder. Just finished installing a new Genie screw-drive unit.

John

[billg]

I really appreciate your time posting this information. We have th

same machine 4104200 it is 3.5 yrs old and has just started leaking. It is also leaking along the middle drum seam on the right hand side. Tightening the bolts did not fix the problem.

I will order a new gasket and install it - It looks like a fairly tim consuming to take off all of the springs, shocks and motor. Taking ou the entire drum seems like a good idea - my first guess was to take of just the back half but like the idea of removing the drum and bein able to better access to the nuts plus the ability to use a torqu wrench.

I am really impressed with the construction of the machine - th designers went to a lot of trouble to isolate the vibration and t re-enforce wiring harnesses and hoses that are effected by th vibration. It has been a long time since I have taken something a par and was so impressed by the simple but well thoughout design.

Thanks again, Bill G.

PS I hope the new gasket will last longer than 3.5 yrs

-- billg

[senorgrand]

I too have this machine. It too is about 3.5 years old and leaking fro

the same area for the past four months.

I will tighten the bolts as recommended here, but I'm not hopeful.

For those doing this repair, please keep us posted.

For those professionals here, any idea what this repair should cost

-- senorgrand

[Appliance Repair Aid]

Hi,

**For those professionals here, any idea what this repair should cost?**

To replace the seal between the back and front 1/2's of the outer tank? If yes, a couple hundred dollares easy as this is a time consuming call.

jeff. Appliance Repair Aid

[Appliance Repair Aid]

Hi,

**For those professionals here, any idea what this repair should cost?**

To replace the seal between the back and front 1/2's of the outer tank? If yes, a couple hundred dollares easy as this is a time consuming call.

jeff. Appliance Repair Aid

[Appliance Repair Aid]

Hi,

**For those professionals here, any idea what this repair should cost?**

To replace the seal between the back and front 1/2's of the outer tank? If yes, a couple hundred dollares easy as this is a time consuming call.

jeff. Appliance Repair Aid

[senorgrand]

Jeff -- thanks for the estimate.

I did tighten the bolts -- it seemed to slow the leaks considerably but it's still dripping.

I'm ordering the part today and hope to do the fix over Christma break.

Is there a good "Chilton" manual for washing machine repairs? Even a exploded diagram would be helpful.

I know I can get the thing apart, but I'm worried about reassembling i in the correct order. I will use a digital camera to document th disassembly, which should help.

Oh -- are there any capacitors in this thing that can discharge afte it's been unplugged

-- senorgrand

[Appliance Repair Aid]

G'day,

**Is there a good "Chilton" manual for washing machine repairs? Even an exploded diagram would be helpful**

A good manual....

Some parts breakdowns....

Appliance Repair Aid

[senorgrand]

Jeff -- thanks for those links!

I downloaded the Sears diagrams and parts lists into a single printabl Word document if anyone else needs it.

If any other amateurs undertake this repair before I can get to i later this month, I would appreciate any tips.

Cheers

-- senorgrand

[billg]

-- billg

[Appliance Repair Aid]

Hi,

The gasket needs nothing, but a little lock tight on the bolts doesn't hurt. Most that we see are a bad bearing so we are changing the back

1/2 of the outer tank anyay = nice clean/tight holes for the bolts.

between front and rear outer tubs. jeff. Appliance Repair Aid

[billg]

Just completed the repair -where did the day go? I found the repair t be pretty straightforward but time consuming (I believe this is exactl what Jeff said at the beginning of the thread). Following are som notes ? use at your own risk, as I have no idea as to what I?m doing.

First, you can remove the panel on the front bottom of the washer t verify where the water is coming from ? just hope it is a lose hose an not the tub seal. Next the top comes off with just four additiona screws. What a great design ? allowing light in from the top reall makes it easy to see what you are doing. On my washer one of the li brackets is held in place with a screw and the other is loose ? seem strange.

1) Get several containers for all of the screws - I think the back ha about 20 screws and the drum has 24 lag bolts (approx). 2) Remove the belt and motor before taking out the drum - you will gai additional clearance. And reduce the weight - hardly, wait till you se the cement ring on the front of the drum. After removing 4 lag bolts the motor should slide towards the front of the washer - mine require a little persuading. It went back on like a dream. 3) Make use of wooden blocks - to pivot the drum so you do not have t lift all of the weight while un-assembling and re-assembling 4) Take the money you are saving and buy the pro-mechanics set o standard/metric sockets, pivots, and extensions. Also, a low spee high torque drill is great to drive all of the screws and lag bolts. used several sizes of extensions, pivots and the drill extensively t drive most of the screws and bolts. ?A job that does not require a ne tool ? is not a job worth doing? 5) There may be a better way to separate the drum from the cabinet bu I very carefully cut the glue that holds the gasket inside the washe door ? I used a straight razor, typically used for scraping. There i a clever clamp that holds this gasket to the soap dispenser ? I?m sur there is a flip of the wrist technique to re-install the clamp, but sure did not know it. It can quickly be opened with a screwdriver bu I had a hard time putting it back on. I did not put any glue on afte I re-installed the gasket. I was very careful not to damage the gaske as it looks really expensive and hard to replace. 6) When you remove the hose to the pump ? water will go everywhere. had to remove the ?air chamber? (43 on the diagram) in order to remov one of the shock towers ? I found it very difficult to re-install thi hose. Take your time and double check that it is on and the hose clam is super tight ? because it will come off and water will go everywhere. I ended up breaking the pin that held the air chamber in place an re-attached it with a zip-tie ? I think it would put unwanted forc onto the other parts if not held securely. 7) I found that the pin that holds the shock towers were easier to tak out and install by pushing (not pounding). I used a socket (as Jef recommended) to cover the end but still needed to push the retainin pin in with a small screwdriver. Make sure when putting the pins bac in that you position them such that you can get to the retaining pi (if it had been towards the drum ? I would not have been able t release it with a screw driver. I put several wooded blocks under the drum before removing the shocks. After removing the shocks I was able rock the drum onto more blocks an un-tensioned the springs. I then removed the springs. I went i reverse order to re-install the springs and then the shock towers. 8) I talked to an ingenious ME about the lag bolts that hold the tw drum halves together. He said that the bolts should stay tight, a they were probably self-threading and that the plastic would ?col flow? around the bolt. It is the industry standard not to use an additional hardware with this configuration. He said not to use loc tight as it could react with the plastic. Lastly, if they loosen wavey washer could be used to re-enforce the connection. A flat washer should be installed first as the wavey washer by itself would dig into the plastic. I used a torque wrench and tighten nuts in pairs on opposite sides of the drum ? I tighten to 132 (I think inch/pounds).

The hose on the top of the drum that goes to the soap dispenser comes out of the dispenser easily and re-installs easily too - perhaps, this is a good place to start the removal process.

I will be interested to see what additional notes are added ? to the thread. I really appreciate all your great advice and encouragement.

[mike88gt]

This thread is somewhat old, but it helped me complete the repairs. Th

bearings in my washer were so shot, I couldn't hear myself think durin spin cycle.

I actually bought the back half of the drum from Sears, it was th cheapest that I could find. I bought a belt as well since I knew th project would suck, and I didn't want to have to do work over again.

The instructions posted here were good, so thank you guys. The bigges pains of the repair were unstacking the dryer and putting this one hos back on somewhere down near the pump (I forget which one now, but I d remember swearing a lot and then going to make a stiff drink). thought the entire drum assembly would be heavier, but it was eas enough to grab and lift out. It did take a few evenings after work t complete, but then again, I did take a bit of time to clean up the bac of the inner drum with the pressure washer and some chemicals to get al the gunk off, and also used some 400 grit wet sandpaper to clean up th spindle especially where the seal seats. This is a good idea fo anyone doing this repair. I spread a very thin layer of good syntheti grease on the spindle for good measure.

I figure I saved about 400 bucks. One thing I like about Sears is tha I know I'll be able to get parts thru them for practically forever. Ho do I know??? I bought parts for a 30 year old radial arm saw severa years ago. Got everything I needed in 3 days.

What is stupid is that this set is around 5 years old and this is th

2nd major repair. The first was the electronic control board tha friggin burned up. Fortunately it was still under warranty by 2 days.

Thanks again for the great information!!!

Mik

-- mike88gt

[Appliance Repair Aid]

Thankx for letting us know....that should help others!

jeff. Appliance Repair Aid

[Art]

Unfortunately Sears and Kmart have merged so you can expect Sears parts dept to deteriorate in my opinion.