I get the impression you would like to live in a lawless society.
There are laws in just about every state about harming domestic pets,but
you would rather act on your own and leave lethal traps for them(except
that the law doesn't see it that way.),in "defense of your property",rather
than talk to the owner,or get the authorities involved.
Naturally, you know what's best IN THEORY, but I've dealt with irresponsible
dog owners for the past 25 years. There are two types and ONLY two types:
Type 1: Knows that what they're doing is wrong, but doesn't give a damn.
Type 2: Doesn't realize that they're fucked up. Too stupid to own a dog, in
My preference is to use the existing laws in my favor. Here, it's 3 strikes
and your doggy is taken away forever. That usually takes weeks. I've learned
to compress the process into as little as a week in one case. This usually
involves retraining the dog catcher. Many believe the dog owner should have
a little time in between visits, to "think about their mistake". Nope.
As far as eliminating the animal, I'd prefer to use a bullet, but this is
not possible in my neighborhood. However, make no mistake about this, Jimmy
boy: All day long, farmers cause nuisance animals to vanish, and it's
perfectly legal. If I had the opportunity, I'd do the same. You can claim
that a dog is different from an insect because people are emotionally
attached to dogs, but that matters little to anyone but the dog owner.
What's it costin' you these days to have your shot out or otherwise
broken windows replaced, kicked and trampled sprinkler heads fixed, and
24 hour security to guard you against the 25 years worth of vengeful
people who must hate your sorry ass?
Save your phoney keyboard flexing for the gai-boi groups you hang in.
FARMERS,in agriculture-zoned areas,sure.
But most if not all of the queries HERE are from URBAN homeowners,where it
is is NOT legal.
And the law authorities.
I live in an apartment,and I have about 30 years of experience with dog
owners and poop where it shouldn't be. There are a minority of owners who
either curb their dog in the proper places or clean up after them without
instruction,then there are the ones who were just unaware or clueless(who
straighten up after a talk.),and then the ones who just don't care(even
after you talk with them).
So,that's THREE types.
Actually, in NY, you can end any animal that damages ANY food crop. Not
dependent on zoning. Call the NYS DEC for clarification. This obviously does
not address methods.
They need to find a dead animal first. The key word is "find". Otherwise,
all they have is a missing pet report.
Well, even many of the owners who clean up fall into one of the other two
categories, because they won't obey a polite request from a property owner
to do it elsewhere. Or, perhaps that puts them into yet another category:
Criminal, since trespassing is illegal.
And WHERE do people grow food crops? Farms.
Most people posting here have not mentioned any gardens being devastated.
You're reaching again.AND trying to use an exemption as the general rule.
Ah,so you advocate an illegal act,then compound it by hiding evidence,a
second illegal act.
You must be a wonderful law-abiding citizen.(not)
Well,as I said;APARTMENT(and "curb their dog in the *proper* places"),so
there are "common areas".The first type,those that clean up afterwards
without any prompting,are the sort that would not use another person's yard
anyways. "curb their dog in the *proper* places" should have been a clue to
The law allows for protection of food growing plots of any size. I believe
it's a holdover from the victory garden days, during WWII. Haven't you ever
seen 1 acre food gardens? Some people do that for the food, not just for
enjoyment as I do. But, those plots are not considered "farms". A 40x40 plot
in a typical suburban neighborhood may be protected in the same way as a
As far as "devastated", in my previous home, a couple of dogs were doing
exactly that: Digging in the easiest soil they could find, which happened to
be my garden. A one week old lettuce seedling does not respond well to being
pissed on and then dug out of the soil. The solution involved a conference
with the town justice, a series of warnings (one of which was rather
horrific), and the sudden "retraining" of the animal control person. It
I'm glad you haven't had to deal with something like this. It was NOT
If an animal was destroying your handiwork and you could get little or no
help from the authorities, I'm sure you'd handle it any way you saw fit. Or,
if you had to shell out cash to have your carpets cleaned because of some
asshole's pet, again, I'm sure you'd be over the top. You will say
I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but people who clean up after
their dogs STILL walk them, and let the dogs do their thing on other
peoples' property. And, in some cases, they refuse to obey requests to take
their dogs elsewhere.
Most urban dwellers do not have such garden plots.
And NONE of the posters here mentioned any gardens being damaged.
You're reaching again.AND trying to use an exemption as the general rule.
You keep on bringing up -exceptions- that are not common in urbania,and not
mentioned in any of the posts on this newsgroup,and then believe that's
justification for cruelty to animals in other circumstances.
It's happened to me,tracked the crap right thru the living room and into
the kitchen,and I had to clean it myself.It's NOT any major carpet cleaning
deal.And I did go "over the top",and let the manager know about it.
The woman moved out shortly after that.(sad,she was VERY hot!)
No,people who clean up after their dogs on their own are NOT the sort that
walk their dogs and leave crap where it's improper.
Thus the problem is with the dog's walker and not the dog itself.
So no "justification" for being cruel to the animal.
Doesn't matter what anyone else mentioned. You're challenging my beliefs
about dogs, and I'm explaining them by using examples which are NOT
exceptions, at least not based on my experience. In order to determine who
owned 3 stray dogs many years ago, I followed those dogs through the
neighborhood and watched as they dug their way through various properties.
That's what dogs do sometimes.
Let's dissect this. You used the word "cruelty". Although I have no problem
with someone slowly killing a dog (the sponge trick, for instance), it's not
something I'd do myself. That's not because I give a damn about the dog.
Rather, I'd want to be sure it was dead. If I lived in a place where it was
safe to do so, I'd opt for a bullet. It would satisfy my desire to be
As far as "exceptions", you can only make that statement if you realize it's
limited by your awareness of what dog catchers deal with all day. Do you
work for your local government, and have access to those statistics? Or, do
you go from door to door asking people about their experiences with dogs?
My one experience with carpet involved professional cleaning. Some people
have more sensitive noses than others, just as some people can hear higher
frequencies. I was not able to identify the dog criminal responsible for the
gift on my lawn, or we would've met in small claims court.
Dogs are attracted to the scent where other dogs have created a bathroom. It
doesn't matter if it's cleaned up. Nobody carries a bucket of water with
them when walking their dog. So, the spot is attractive to stray dogs later,
and the situation gets out of hand. This is why I tell dog owners to go
elsewhere, even if they intend to clean it up.
Actually, this isn't quite true. Behavioral psychology suggests that in a
way, the owners are trained by the dogs. Why do they walk their dogs? Not
just for the exercise. The dogs become accustomed to crapping only if
they're walked. Sometimes they crap in the house if they're not walked. So,
the human walks the dog, which leads to the antisocial behavior and
disrespect for property rights. Therefore, the dog is at least equally
responsible. We think we've domesticated them, but this is based on
religious nonsense which says that a higher power made us as his crowning
On a vaguely related subject, there is a body of evidence suggesting that
the domestication of plants is not a one-way street either. If you find this
interesting, you might pick up a book called "The Botany of Desire". It's a
fascinating exploration of who's zoomin' who.
Sure they are exceptions;the majority of the US population lives in URBAN
areas,and few of them have food-producing gardens.
Another exception put forth as common occurrence.
But it IS cruelty to animals,both legally and morally.
And,you recommend illegal things you would not do yourself.
There's that bad Usenet advice I mentioned.
and in most urban areas,discharging a firearm for that purpose is illegal.
More of your bad Usenet advice.
As I said;Sure they are exceptions;the majority of the US population lives
in URBAN areas,and few of them have food-producing gardens.
Or are just too finicky or lazy to clean it themselves.
It's not that they use your yard and then clean it up,it's that they tend
to NOT USE such places in the first place(the 1st category,not the other
2). They curb their dogs in the proper places-not on others property.
No,it takes the dog -outdoors- to do their toilet,much preferable to the
alternative.Dogs don't take to litterboxes like cats.
Well,indoors WOULD be the only place they could crap,if not
Now,walking off one's own property means either exercise or an intent to
deposit the dog's wastes on someone else's property.Also that they do not
have a fenced in yard to allow the dog to relieve itself without being in a
No,some humans allow the dog to select the place for their deposits,instead
of being in command and control themselves.No "psychology" about it,just
laziness and no consideration for others.
Only in your mind.
I don't believe in that religious nonsense either.
There was something along that line on a recent PBS program;Guns,Germs and
Steel.(how primitive people domesticated food crops that gave the highest
outputs,thus increasing their outputs thru selection)
I've already informed you that a dog is no different than a mosquito. When
you apply the same rules about cruelty to a mosquito, then we can talk. If
you don't agree that the two animals have equal value, explain yourself.
Yes. I stated that fact about firearms in the paragraph you just responded
to. No need to repeat what I've already said. I'm already well versed about
what constitutes safe shooting.
If these are exceptions, then every municipality in this country is wasting
a whole lot of cash keeping dog catchers on the payroll, don't you think?
Nah...not at all. I do most things myself. But, it doesn't matter. Even if
you do it yourself, the owner of the dog has stolen something more precious
than money from you: Your time.
They tend to NOT USE what? Other peoples' property? That's nonsense. If that
were the case, their owners would not be walking around with plastic bags
and paper towels.
Conclusion: Dogs are not appropriate as pets, unless they are owned by
exceptionally considerate humans, which we know is not the case. Therefore,
dogs are no better than mosquitoes (like their owners).
Unless the humans are told otherwise, they stop wherever the dogs tell them
to. You've seen this, but you do not trust what you see.
Nope. Ask your veterinarian. The dogs follows its nose. It marks territory,
and returns to the same place repeatedly.
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