Is this baby snake coiled up outside a gopher snake or a rattler?

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Grandkids just found this baby outside by their skateboards:

Can you tell if it's a rattler or a gopher snake?
I don't want to hurt a gopher snake - but I can't see the eyes. Will try to get a better shot ...
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On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 20:56:26 +0000, Danny D wrote:

Here's a shot of the head after capturing in a bucket:

And of the tail:

It's in a bucket, slightly worse for the wear as I had to use garden tools to capture it alive; but I don't want to hurt it; I just want to identify it. The babies are harder to identify than the adults: - Triangular head vs slender head - Slit eyes vs round eyes - Rattle vs fake rattle etc.
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DADD-
Short Answer-
That's a rattlesnake. UFB.... you're dangerous to yourself and others. Can you not recognize the classic viper shape in an instant? Don't get out much?
I guess it's better to be lucky than good? Now what?
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Definite rattler, you can see the small pit in front of the eye on your 1st picture.
If you want to see more closeup on them see: http://www.alongtheway.org/rattlesnakes/faq.html
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On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:39:15 -0700, Red wrote:

I zoomed into that first picture, and I definitely see the slit eye now (so it's definitely a rattler):

But, I'm having trouble identifying the pit; is this it?

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On 6/2/2013 5:08 PM, Danny D wrote:

From Wikipedia
What makes this group unique is that they all share a common characteristic: a deep pit, or fossa, in the loreal area between the eye and the nostril on either side of the head. These loreal pits are the external openings to a pair of extremely sensitive infrared-detecting organs, which in effect give the snakes a sixth sense to help them find and perhaps even judge the size of the small, warm-blooded prey on which they feed.[6]
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Yes.
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On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:39:15 -0700, Red wrote:

Thanks. That is a very nice site, with professional videos. I'm going through every one as we type.
The pit in their pictures seemed a bit lower in front than my snake's pit, so, I created this composite to help the grandkids (and others) identify rattlers, in the future.

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CHOOT IT!! CHOOT THE CHIT OUT OF IT!!!
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On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:13:02 -0700, Oren wrote:

I try not to kill anything I don't have to; so I put it in a spare blue bucket with a secure top, and will take it a few acres away and let it go.

Thanks for the identification help; when they're adults, they're easier to tell (because of the rattle) but young ones are harder (the rattle is smaller).
I've seen gopher snakes with similar markings (and a similar fake rattle, but they have more slender heads and round eyes).
I still haven't gotten a good look at the eyes (slit vs round) but I do agree the head shape could be pit viper.
Thanks.
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DADD-
This is not a "could be a pit viper" situation..... Are you going to play around until someone gets hurt?
btw.. it can still effectively strike even if the eyes are closed or in darkness.... the special talent of pit vipers.
Ever heard of the "Sidewinder" (AIM-9) air to air missile? There's a reason for that name.
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On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:03:24 -0700, Oren wrote:

I didn't think snakes can actually close their eyes though...
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Wanna do the experiment & let us know your findings?
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On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 20:27:20 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

I was embarrassed for the people who posted that video, but, it *was* interesting to see the headless snake make that all-too-familiar sudden lunge toward the people tugging on the tail at the 1:14 time point.
That's great reflexes!
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On 6/2/2013 5:51 PM, Danny D wrote:

I've personally never seen a rattler but from tail it is obvious to me.
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If you're going relocate vs kill....
here's more info
http://www.livingalongsidewildlife.com/2012/11/rattlesnakes-in-my-yard-is-r elocation.html
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On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 15:16:07 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

Very nice article. Thanks.
That article recommends, if you're gonna relocate, somewhere close by, so, luckily, the place I relocate my rattlers to is only a few hundred yards away.
I let them loose on a steep slope deep in a ravine, where no people travel (it's where I cut a 500 yard tunnel through the poison oak a couple of years ago - so I can easily walk it, but most people don't).
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On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 15:16:07 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

I contacted the author of DD_BobK's reference, Dr. David A. Steen, who is a Post-doctoral Research Associate at the Department of Fish and Wildlife Conservation at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute.
He confirmed it's a rattler and he provided some advice on relocating it safely. He also asked for more pictures, so I'll be sending them to him soon as he wants to publish them.
Thanks for the helpful advice!
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Our tax dollars at work
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74119.html
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On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 15:18:00 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

Hmmm... based on that article, I think I misidentified the "loreal pit".
I think I identified the nostril as the pit in this pic:

Do you see the pit in that picture?
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