Is it possible to properly install ice and water shield up a wall without removing siding?

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I'm being told by a roofer that he has the ability to install 6 inches of i ce and water shield up a wall, behind the siding, without removing any sidi ng. He says he uses GAF ice and water shield. The plan is to put ice an d water shield on the deck of the roof and also install it 6 inches up the wall and then install the step flashing along that roof/wall.
Again, he claims he can install the ice and water shield 6 inches up the wa ll, and underneath both the siding and tar paper, without removing any sidi ng. Is it REALLY possible to do this without removing any siding, and is t his the correct way of doing things?
The goal here is to prevent leakage where the wall meets the roof, due to ice damming, when next winter arrives.
Thanks,
Jay.
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On Friday, June 19, 2015 at 5:26:42 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

ice and water shield up a wall, behind the siding, without removing any si ding. He says he uses GAF ice and water shield. The plan is to put ice and water shield on the deck of the roof and also install it 6 inches up th e wall and then install the step flashing along that roof/wall.

wall, and underneath both the siding and tar paper, without removing any si ding. Is it REALLY possible to do this without removing any siding, and is this the correct way of doing things?

o ice damming, when next winter arrives.

The questions I'd ask him are:
There are typically nails in the siding? How are you going to get the prod uct past the nails? I guess he could pull the lower nails.
Ice/water shield is sticky on the back, you pull off paper and then apply it. How is he going to slip a sticky product up behind the siding? Maybe he won't remove the backside for the portion he's going to slip under the siding, that might work.
Even step flashing, you have the same problem, you can't slide it up with nails in the way. I had to remove my siding when doing a major repair to do it right. I fooled around with it for awhile, trying to figure out an effective way to avoid it, but finally gave in.
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He believes the tar paper on the side of the building is stapled, and he sh ould be able to somehow remove the staples (but still not understanding how he could do this without removing the siding, since there is very little s pace to work with).
Yeah, I suppose leaving the backing of the ice/water shield might work if i t were successfully tucked underneath the tar paper that is underneath the siding, but not sure I'm buying it. He will be lucky if he gets new step flashing successfully installed. I don't really have a choice in who I'm u sing, since management already made this decision, but the repair should be interesting to watch.

oduct past the nails? I guess he could pull the lower nails.

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ice and water shield up a wall, behind the siding, without removing any si ding. He says he uses GAF ice and water shield. The plan is to put ice and water shield on the deck of the roof and also install it 6 inches up th e wall and then install the step flashing along that roof/wall.

wall, and underneath both the siding and tar paper, without removing any si ding. Is it REALLY possible to do this without removing any siding, and is this the correct way of doing things?

o ice damming, when next winter arrives.
*What kind of siding?
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Horizontal wood siding that was put on around 10 years ago.
The original plan was that the roofer would remove siding and then put the ice and water shield up a foot, but he claims it can't be done without crac king the siding, and says he is having trouble locating matching siding mat erial, and claims even if he does the whole siding would need to be redone. There is a lower-level roof where the roof meets the wall, and the same thing on the upper level, so siding would've needed to be removed at the b ottom of the lower level wall as well as near the top of the wall, but not the very top.
Now he claims removing siding would add as much at $3800 to the job because once he gets involved with removing siding he feels he would have to remov e all the siding and replace it with new siding, but management doesn't wan t to do pay for this.

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You mentioned that "management" made the decision, so I am guessing that this is a condo owners or homeowners association and they are responsible for the exterior of the building.
Any chance that you could take a few photos and post links to them using a free site such as http://tinypic.com? That may make it easier to see exactly what the area looks like that is about to be repaired.
If I am picturing everything correctly, I am not sure why ice shield would need to be on the vertical wall anyway. I think of ice shield as going along a roof edge under the roof shingles in an area where there is an unheated space along the roof edge. The melting water from the roof flows down and then hits the cold edge and freezes, causing an ice dam, which raises the roof shingles and causes water to back up into the property.
So, maybe the only place that you need the new ice shield would be on the slope under the soon-to-be-new roof shingles.
And, instead of ice shield home under the siding on the wall, could they just slide some aluminum flashing under the wood siding? -- not far up, maybe just a couple of inches? And, then put the ice shield only on the sloping roof under the new roof shingles?
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On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 2:27:19 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote: .

It does go over the roof deck like you say, but it also needs to extend 4 to 6" up any vertical wall surfaces that meet the roof. Otherwise, with ice damming, water will rise up and flow in there.

The step flashing needs to go up at least 4" too.
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In typed:

You are probably correct about that. But, I assume that is how it is done initially before the roofing and siding go on. In this case, the siding is already there, and removing it will be an issue. So, maybe trying to get new ice shield to go under the old siding is not really a viable option.
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On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 11:09:18 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:

I agree it's very possible that you can't get it successfully installed under existing siding, without removing at least the bottom siding. But since the problem here is ice damming, to apply ice shield to the roof deck and not have it extend 4 - 6" up the walls is a recipe for doing the whole job over. If water backs up, it's going to get in at the wall.
I think a big part of the problem here is the same as in the thread with the poster that had laminate floor installed and they didn't take care of where it meets the wall because the concrete was irregular. She was proposing to get the same contractor back to try to deal with it. Big mistake. What she needs is a finish carpenter. And here what the condo board should do is get some carpenters to quote on dealing with removing/replacing the siding. The roofers get set in their ways, and want to half-ass their way out of dealing with siding. If I were the roofing contractor, I'd either learn how to do the siding, or else have a carpenter buddy to sub out that part of the job.
Another common problem here is that typical condo board is folks with little or no experience in anything, so they get hosed all the time.
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Well, the roofer had a mini-meltdown about my concerns today, but he did a gree to remove the siding, and put the ice shield up the wall, and new step flashing as well, and then he put the siding back. The siding doesn't loo k that great...looks scuffed up from removing it, but at least the roofing job was done right on the side wall, and it's the back of the house so the cosmetics of the siding isn't what matters most. I don't know why he made it sound like it was such a hassle. He probably was afraid it would crack and he would be on the hook for all new siding.
They did reuse the step flashing around the chimney and it looks strange to me around the wooden chimney, because you can now see some exposed pieces step flashing that you didn't used to see rather than just seeing shingles on the side of the chimney. The leak wasn't in the chimney area, it was on the side wall on the opposite side of that roof, so hoping there isn't goi ng to be a new problem.
I don't know why all the old step-flashing was nailed to walls rather than the deck of the roof. Looks like they did that for the new step flashing they installed today on the side as well, but if this holds up until they r edo all the roofs in the complex, I'll have hopefully moved out by then : )

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...oh, and after the decision was made remove the siding fromt he side wall , he was planning on leaving the old step flashing in place as extra prote ction, and then put the ice and water shield on top of the old step flashin g, and then install the step-flashing, but he gave me the choice of removin g the old step-flashing first. Since I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to leave the old/bent step flashing in place and whether the ice shield would really stick to it, I elected to have him remove the old step-flashing. Would it have been better to leave it on?
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On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 9:12:23 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

ll, he was planning on leaving the old step flashing in place as extra pro tection, and then put the ice and water shield on top of the old step flash ing, and then install the step-flashing, but he gave me the choice of remov ing the old step-flashing first. Since I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to leave the old/bent step flashing in place and whether the ice shield wou ld really stick to it, I elected to have him remove the old step-flashing . Would it have been better to leave it on?
I would have removed the old step flashing too. Like you, I don't see any point in leaving it on. Those roofers sound like amateurs. You said the siding was scuffed up a bit, that's to be expected. A coat of paint should fix it.
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trader_4 posted for all of us...

really stick to it, I elected to have him remove the old step-flashing. Would it have been better to leave it on?

+1
--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

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Unfortunately it is a condo. I've been taking pictures of what it looks li ke now with the tarp and existing step flashing still present. If I find o ut they're planning on reusing the existing step-flashing, or if I see them do it then I will complain about it. If that actually were the plan, I w ould never have wanted them to work on my roof at all, since they may be ma king it worse than it already was, since it didn't leak when it rained, jus t when ice damming happened.
The person who works for the management company told me that this is a pref erred contractor who would never put his name on anything unless it is done right. Should I really trust this?
My opinion is that if the job really does require removal of siding to be d one properly that should be done regardless of the price. However, the ro ofer seems to be assuring them it will be "done right" without removal of s iding. He supposedly tried to locate matching siding and now is claiming i f siding is removed it all has to be removed and new siding put on for thou sands more dollars. Not sure I'm convinced that all the siding really wou ld need to be replaced if they could locate matching horizontal cedar sidin g. But, if that really were necessary to have it done right, and they don't do this, then it will still be more expensive for the association to have to do the work all over again a 2nd time when it leaks again.
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Oh, and I was told by management if I wanted 12 inches I would have to pay myself for the cost of replacing all the siding which would be thousands of dollars. Now I'd settle fore 6 inches done right, but if "done right" r equires removal/replacement of the siding then I really should not have to pay out of my own pocket since this is a condo and I don't own the exterior .
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In typed:

Is your condo the only one that has this ice dam problem, or are there others that they are re-doing at the same time as yours?
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I can't speak for other condos. There is another condo development behind me that has steeper roofs so maybe they were okay. Funny thing is they did a lot of roofing and siding work during the winter (not this winter, ma ybe last year or the year before), which I thought was crazy at the time.. ..and I think it was replacement work not repairs.

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Okay, I misunderstood your question...I thought you were talking about othe r developments....there are others in my development that had problems and work is being done. When I ask for the exact schedule from management as to what is going on I get ignored....so I have no idea what is going on wit h the repairs of the other units.
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Hi Jay,

It might be possible:
1. IF there are no nails in the lower 6", or they can be removed without seriously damaging the siding.
2. IF the siding can be pulled away from the wall enough to slip the membrane behind the siding.
3. IF there is a gap between the siding and the roof deck (there should be at least an inch or two) to allow the membrane to be slipped up under the siding.
The protective plastic covering the adhesive backing would need to be left in place behind the siding, or pulled out once the membrane is in place. Difficult, but doable.
Assuming these conditions can all be met in your situation, it would probably be possible to slip the membrane under the siding. Especially if they work with smaller pieces near the wall. You may not get adhesion to the wall behind the siding, but that shouldn't be a big issue on a vertical wall.
Slipping rigid step flashing behind the siding will probably be more difficult than slipping in the flexible membrane. That kind of depends on how much gap you have between the roof and siding, or if the bottom of the wall is exposed so the flashing can be slid up along the wall from the bottom.
In an ideal world it would be best to remove siding above the roof. But there's probably a way to work within the existing structure if you have to.
Good luck,
Anthony Watson www.mountainsoftware.com www.watsondiy.com
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On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 2:04:49 AM UTC-4, HerHusband wrote:

I said the same thing yesterday. But after thinking about it a bit more, there is another aspect. There is a point to that adhesive backing. It's self sealing so that when roofing nails go through it, it seals back up again. If you slide it up under the siding without removing the backing, then reinstall siding nails, those nail will not be sealed. Also, if it's put down the normal way, let's say there is some small compromised spot where water can get in. Any water can only get to that one little spot. Install it without taking off the backing and the water can travel anywhere behind it.

When I did my work, one of the problems was that the siding didn't have the proper 3/4" or so clearance above the roof deck, the left it too long, so the ends had started to rot. By taking it off, I was able to remedy that too.

The other side of the equation is that when doing roofing work, so much is involved, it's expensive work, that it's usually better to make sure you do it right the first time, instead of taking chances. Especially if they've had problems with ice damming in that roof before...... One aspect of it would be whether they really need to remove all the siding or not, ie can they just remove one row. The owners could get an opinion from a good carpenter/siding guy. The roofers may just be lazy, set in their ways, and don't want to do it and maybe the carpenter will for a reasonable fee.
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