is it OK to buy a central system that uses R22 freon?

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I am in need of another unit for the upstairs of my home. I just replaced the downstairs unit 2 years ago with a new unit that uses R410. Now that the upstairs unit has completely gone out, my finances are kind of in bad shape and I have been looking for a used unit this time. I have done research and had been told that the units using R22 are being phased out, but I found a great deal on a two year old unit, but it uses R22. Does anyone know how long it will be before the R22 freon is totally phased out and you won't be able to buy it anymore?
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fashun08 wrote:

R22 will be around for quite some time due to reclamation and recycling. Just buy a full extra cylinder of R22 to keep on hand and that should provide all you will ever need for the future.
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Pete C. wrote:

How can an ordinary Joe buy it?
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I wouldnt buy what is now a obsolete system R22 unless its near free.
Long term getting refrigerant that will get in short supply and EXPENSIVE, parts may become a hassle
plus the R22 system is likely less efficent than new models today....
if your only going to live in your home a few years R22 may do the job but hurt resale value.
If your planning on living there forever go with a new system.
any long term warranty with your used 2 year old R22 system?
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Can't
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Tony Hwang wrote:

He simply has whoever is installing the system add an extra full cylinder to the bill. Or the average Joe gets his EPA refrigerant license and buys it himself (I have my license).
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About 3 years ago I had a R-22 unit put in new. That was about the last you could get new units. I could ahve gotten a system with another type. The r-22 units have been around a long time and the bugs have been worked out on most of them. Also the r-22 unit runs at a lower pressure and should be easier on the compressor and things.
As some one mentioned, you can have an extra bottle of r-22 bought by the installer, or you can take a test and get the license for it. I think it runs about $ 150 to $ 200 for a 30 pound bottle depending on where you get it. I don't know the requirements now, but about 10 years ago I got mine at work. If it is similar the the automotive license, you get a book and look over it and take a open book test. It is mostly on the EPA rules and laws, nothing to do with the actual instalation or repairing the system.
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On 7/16/2011 9:23 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

Me and my buddy I do HVAC installation and repair with, buy new R-22 units from the supply house all the time. The only difference is that the new units are no longer factory charged with R-22. The new replacement units are called dry systems. The units used to come factory filled with enough R-22 to handle an evaporator coil and a 15 foot line set so the installer would only have to put little if any R-22 to top the system off. We had to get another service manifold with new hoses and the new gauges for the new R-410A refrigerant because of the much higher pressures at which it functions. My suppliers tell me there is a great demand for new R-22 equipment so they are often out of stock for the dry replacement systems. R-22 is still available for now from the supply houses. The complete new systems we install use R-410A.
TDD
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I decided to look it up and here is the last I saw;
January 1, 2010: The Montreal Protocol requires the U.S. to reduce its consumption of HCFCs by 75% below the U.S. baseline. Allowance holders may only produce or import HCFC-22 to service existing equipment. Virgin R-22 may not be used in new equipment. As a result, heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers may not produce new air conditioners and heat pumps containing R-22
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I guess that while you can install new r-22 systems, you have to get them by the piece and put the system together now. Just call each piece a repair part ?
In 2020 the new r-22 cannot be made, but there should be lots of it around, and you still can use the reclamed r-22.
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Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Containing" is the key word, produce all the R-22 systems you want, but don't pre-charge them. R-22 sold separately, batteries not included, etc.
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Ralph Mowery wrote:

The EPA license for non auto is slightly more involved, a couple hours of class and a non open book test. The auto one you can do at home and mail in last I knew.
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The lowest level one still allows you to buy all refrigerants. It covers any system that uses less thah 5lb of refrigerant. In some states it's a simple open book test. In NC it's online. I got it so I could buy refrigerant.
The main issue with r22 is there are presently caps on the total amounts. If a lot of people continue to repair and replace components with r22 it could drive the price of r22 up pretty high when demand reaches the limits. Hard to say what the fed might do then. It's possible that they may relax the limits because of the economic situation. But they might not as well. Typical home systems hold somewhere between 5 and 10lbs so buying one 30lb can and storing it would pretty much cover you for minor leaks and a even a few total refrigerant losses.
I bought a "dry" r22 system that matches one of the r22 system I replaced a couple years back. My older r22 system is a 20 year old carrier so I'm thinking it's going to go any day. My house has 2 systems and if you have two identical systems it makes troubleshooting worlds easier. Just swap parts until the problem moves to the other system.
R22 systems can also be installed using silver solder instead of brazing. That will let you get away without running nitrogen in the lines since you are not heating them up so much. Plus it's a lot easier to silver solder than it is to braze. I don't know about the newer systems, the pressures are higher. SIlver solder mught not cut it.
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On 7/16/2011 9:23 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

this reply is almost 100% wrong.
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Steve Barker wrote:

No, it's about 33% wrong.
A 30# cylinder of R-22 was about $160 not long ago. The EPA 608 license test is not open book like the 609 auto license test is. The 608 license test is mostly on EPA rules with only a little basic refrigeration theory and basic recovery and recycling procedure.
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My bad, I forgot, it's "mail in" in NC. They suggest you include the extra $10 for the study guide.
I think I paid about $170 earlier this year for a 30lb cylinder.
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On 7/17/2011 2:52 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Well r-22 does not run at lower pressures than 410a, so that part is WRONG also.
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r22 does run at lower pressures than 410a.
http://www.rses.org/assets/r410a/0309_Feature3.pdf
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Temperature/pressure chart shows r-22 about 60% of the 410a http://www.toughtank.com/fyi/289/advantageFYI289.php
"Systems operating on R410A run at a pressure of about 1.6 times that of similar systems operating on R22." http://www.csgnetwork.com/r410apresstempconv.html
R-22 from $ 145 to $ 180 depending on ammount bought. http://www.r-22.com /
As I said about the license, I am not sure about the test as it was over 10 years ago when I got mine. It was at work and about 20 of us were in a room for a crash course for about half a day, then a test was given for the several types of license. Everything but the one for the cars.
Due to a loop hole, I guess that the r-22 systems can still be installed new, but the was not the intent of the laws.
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<stuff snipped>

That's not what I've been told. On the DuPont site on the web I found this:
R-410A is designed for new equipment only, due to its much higher cooling capacity and operating pressure. R-410A is a higher-pressure refrigerant than R-22 and should be used only in equipment specifically designed for R-410A . . .working with R-410A is not much different than any other refrigerant. However, R-410A does have higher pressure and can become combustible when mixed with air . . . The vapor pressure of R-410A (at 70 F) at 201 psig is higher than R-22 at 136 psig . . . Dave Bateman is a senior technical service engineer for DuPont Refrigerants and has been providing customer technical support for DuPont and Suva refrigerants for the past 17 years. For more information, send e-mail to snipped-for-privacy@USA.dupont.com or visit http://www.suva.dupont.com .
http://www2.dupont.com/Refrigerants/en_US/assets/downloads/article_200510_rses_journal.pdf
Dupont makes the stuff, and I've always heard that the new stuff ran at higher pressures, but there's been more than one occasion where everything I knew had changed out from under me. Got any citations or further information about why the OP was wrong about what he said? Or is this a Clintonesque 'what is the meaning of "is"' sort of word game?
http://www.slate.com/id/1000162 /
-- Bobby G.
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On 7/17/2011 4:32 PM, Steve Barker wrote:

Well I stand corrected on that issue. I apparently mis-understood my HVAC man when he said what ever it was he said. Fine. I could care less anyway. I have 3 brand new r-22 systems and 2 brand new 410a systems and they all cool the houses they're attached to. That's all that matters.
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