Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

[HeyBub]

If that's the policy of YOUR fire department, it's time to move.

Our firefighters are trained to deal with electrical connections, hazardous or poisonous materials, potential explosive chemicals, and virtually any other obstacle or threat they could possibly encounter.

A responsible fire department certainly will not wait. For anything.

About three years ago, the apartment house across the street from my place caught fire. The first piece of equipment was on the scene, so one of the commanders told me, within three minutes of the dispatch. The fire department, in short order, had FORTY-TWO pieces of equipment on the scene. I'm talking vehicles painted red that said "Fire Department." There were also unaccountably many cop cars, wreckers, and so forth. Moreover, there were - and here I'm guessing - a half dozen or more pumper trucks attached to fire plus up to seven or more blocks away awaiting the call for more water.

A hundred and fifty firefighters are NOT going to be sitting around playing Scrabble waiting for a Centerpoint Energy truck to meander by.

[trader4]

Now what total BS. Who should I believe, Evan or my lying eyes? I've been there when a fire department responded to a house on fire. Watched one of the crew members take an axe, break the electric meter seal and pry the meter out. It came crashing to the ground.

That's what real men do. And why not? It's safe and easy to do. If they followed Evans armchair advice, there would be a lot of houses burned to the ground, waiting for the power company to arrive. And what good would the disconnect in a typical house do anyway? The vast majority of them are inside the burning house. Firemen supposed to go inside to turn it off?

[TomR]

Thanks. That really helped and I was able to go right to those sections.

Since Ed showed me how I can do a cut and paste from the NEC, here is a cut and paste of some of the sections:

===>

Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close

approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other

effective means.

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of

being removed or exposed without damaging the building

structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure

or finish of the building.

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being

reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections

without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite

to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable

ladders, and so forth.

230.70 General. Means shall be provided to disconnect all

conductors in a building or other structure from the service entrance

conductors.

(A) Location. The service disconnecting means shall be

installed in accordance with 230.70(A)(1), (A)(2), and

(A)(3).

(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting

means shall be installed at a readily accessible location

either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the

point of entrance of the service conductors.

(2) Bathrooms. Service disconnecting means shall not be

installed in bathrooms.

(3) Remote Control. Where a remote control device(s) is

used to actuate the service disconnecting means, the service

disconnecting means shall be located in accordance with

230.70(A)(1).

[TomR]

>

Thanks for pointing that out. That worked. I know that the free version that is on the NFPA.org website doesn't allow cut and paste etc. I think the only reason that they post a free read-only version is to comply with a legal decision that stated that if they are going to create regulations that apply to the public (if adopted by local governmental entities), they have to make them available for free.

But, I guess that since the link that I posted is from the Garner, North Carolina government website, they decided that they are entitled to post a pdf copy the regulations that they adopted (2008 NEC) and make it both free and able to be cut-and-pasted, printed, etc.

I ran into a similar problem recently when I was trying to cut and past a page from the 2006 International Residential Code. The only free version that I could find online was one that would not permit a cut and paste.

[Kurt Ullman]

Don't they pop the meters if needed?

[TomR]

Interesting. I had not thought about the option of the fire department pulling the meter to cut the power.

One reason that I am interested in this topic is that I have two properties in the same town that I bought a few years ago. One is a 2-family duplex with all separate utilities for each tenant and the other is a 3-family triplex with all separate utilities for each tenant. After buying each one, I had new electric service installed in both properties.

I had the 2-family duplex done first. For that one, which already had a separate service panel in the basement for each tenant, the question came up about whether both tenants had access to the basement. The electrician explained that with new service being installed, the code required that each tenant have access to their own service panel and the main service disconnect. Since both tenants have access to the basement (and the service panels) -- meaning they each have a key to the basement -- it was okay for both service panels and main disconnects to be in the basement. As part of the new service upgrade, the electric meters for each unit were moved to the outside and mounted on the front wall of the property.

From the NEC citation that gfretwell posted I found this that refers to that requirement:

230.70 (C) Access to Occupants. In a multiple-occupancy building,

each occupant shall have access to the occupant's service

disconnecting means.

Then, when I had new service installed in the 3-family triplex, I already had service panels and a main disconnect in each of the three tenants' apartments. With the new service, I was also adding a separate "house" panel for the outside lighting etc. And, as before, I was having the electric meters moved to the outside of the building where each service entered the building. But, this time, because the property had 3 or more dwelling units, the local officials required that the 3 tenant services and

1 house service each have an outside main service disconnect. And, in my case, each of the 4 main service disconnects on the outside of the building look similar to what the OP has on his building.

My original plan was for the main service disconnects to be inside the building, right where each service came in, but inside a utility room that only the property owner (me) could access with a key. Then, in each apartment, they would each have their own existing service panel (actually a subpanel), each with its own main cutoff breaker. But, that wasn't okay with the local code officials, so all 4 main service disconnects are now on the outside of the building.

I understand why they have that requirement (fire department and other emergency shutoff capability etc), but it made me a little uncomfortable since anyone walking by could (and still can) turn off the power to any or all apartments at any time. All that I have on each outside service disconnect box now is a short twisted piece of 12 gauge wire holding each box closed (where a padlock could go). Seems a little strange to me, but that's how it is. And, it has been 2 years of so since they were installed and no one has bothered to tamper with the boxes since then. Nevertheless, I am curious if it really would be okay for me to put small padlocks on each one -- if any problems with tampering do seem to start up.

[gfretwell]

If they require a disconnect a suitably (service) rated switching device will fulfill that requirement,.

They may want to see a statement from the utility for the available fault current to be sure it has the required interrupting capacity.

[gfretwell]

The thing about the NEC is you have to be looking at the right language to make a decision. In the case of service disconnects it says "readily accessible" and that is the language you use.

I posted the commentary from the NFPA 70 handbook that says this does not preclude locked cabinets or locked doors as long as the appropriate maintenance people have a key. It is very rare that a panel or an equipment room in a public area of a commercial installation will NOT be locked.

The fire department is not going to take and store a key. The fie department may want a key box that is available to them using THEIR key. That is the standard thing in SW Florida.

[gfretwell]

>>

Did you look here

Plug in your state.

[John Grabowski]

*You can go ahead and put padlocks on the outside disconnects as long as each tenant will receive a key. There are special padlocks that are made to be cut with a bolt cutter that I have seen on fire sprinkler valves and fence gates to electrical equipment. The locks have a notch cut into them making it easier to cut. I think McMaster-Carr sells them.

[trader4]

Exactly. The disconnect is most often inside the burning building. The meter usually isn't. Break the seal, pull the meter.

[DD_BobK]

Evan-

It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!

If nothing else you provide comic relief.

I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up close. They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.

It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left unattended. My money is on them not waiting for a key.

That's probably why they study & practice forceable entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks".

(~180 pages of forceable entry techniques) Evan, spend less time writing & more time reading, even you might get a bit smarter.

I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the result of serious effort (or injury)

[Evan]

LOL... You want your fire department people playing around like that ? I guess you want your tax money going to fund the 100% disability pensions of those injured on duty doing stupid things in non-OSHA approved ways which would earn the doers a Darwin Award with clusters...

[Evan]

@DD_BobK:

You are the pot calling the kettle black...

Biggest twit on here in a while...

Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames...

Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you...

[krw]

Have you ever heard of a meter?

What if the main switch is in the (locked) basement?

Try talking about something you know something about, if you can.

[DD_BobK]

Evan-

You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR.... you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.

Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.

[DD_BobK]

the conditions are changing?

First it was a simple padlock on a panel that could be dealt with in seconds, now it's downed power lines?

If you're wrong in the initial discussion, change it to something that might fit your point of view?

[TomR]

>>>

Thanks. I did find that before at

can only do a read-only of the document, no cut-and-paste, no printingcopies of pages, etc.

[gfretwell]

>>>>

can only do a read-only of the document, no cut-and-paste, no printingcopies of pages, etc.

That is strange but maybe just a New Jersey thing. I can copy/paste and print the Florida code. Maybe it is because Florida rewrites the code into legislation and not just adopted

[Ed Pawlowski]

Leaves room for interpretation as to a lock. Any electrical box should be in a clear path.

OTOH, turning out the lights is a danger situation and the lock prevents accidents or even death.