Is it code to upgrade wiring to first receptacle in run only?

[Himanshu]

To provide some grounded outles in a couple of bedrooms, I would have to replace the older fabric-sheathed two-wire cables with newer 14/2 wire.

To start, I've mapped out all the wiring in the house. To completely replace wiring on each circuit would involve going into the drop ceiling into the basement, behind drywalls, through wood floors and into the attic.

For now I can probably get by with upgrading the wiring from the circuit panel to just the first outlet (or perhaps two) in two circuits and that would not be much work - just in the basement and through the wood floors - quite manageable.

Question is, is it code (our city follows NEC 2002) to upgrade only part of the wiring to 14/2 and leave the rest as it is?

Thanks.

-- Himanshu (remove XXX from my address to reply by email)

[xrongor]

i cant tell you if this is to code or not, but it is NOT to code if you install 3 prong outlets in places that are not grounded...

randy

[Jeff Cochran]

The only caveat is GFCI outlets in bath and kitchen. Locally, if you do any wiring in the bath/kitchen you have to upgrade to GFCI outlets. Other than that, work that was within code when done has no requirement to be redone.

Note that inspectors and jurisdictions vary in interpretations. What may pass for me may not for you.

Jeff

[xrongor]

not to mention that even if it wasnt code, it would be very wise...

randy

[toller]

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that work that met code when done is okay UNLESS you change it; such as doing what he has in mind. Then it is considered new work and it all has to meet current code. Do I have it wrong?

[Himanshu]

Guys, guys. I have no intention of putting in three-pronged receptacles without grounding!!!

What I want to do is this - from the circuit breaker, connect a 14/2 wire (there is grounding available at the panel ofcourse) and run it only to the first one or two receptacles and replace only those with three-pronged receptacles.

The rest of the receptacles on the same circuit would continue to use the old fabric-sheathed two-wire cables and I would leave the receptacles as they are.

I'm not trying to circumvent grounding or do something illegal. I just want to know if in an old house that has mostly old wiring I can upgrade small pieces as I need them.

Thanks again.

-- Himanshu

[toller]

I do not believe it is acceptable to do what you want. Ungrounded outlets do not meet current code and will not be acceptable if you change the circuit they are on by running grounded cable to the first outlet. I do not claim to be an authority on this, but would advise against doing it until you get response from someone who is. (or is you feel really silly, checking with your building department)

Now, the unasked question is do you really care what code is. I suppose the only real downside is the unlikely instance where your old cable caused a fire and the insurance company noted that it was a code violation because of the work you did. Do you feel lucky?

[zxcvbob]

If the old wire is in good shape, all you need to do is run a separate green #12 or #14 wire from the panel (or a ground electrode conductor if it is easier.) The electric code specificly allows this for upgrading old work. I've done that to several outlets on ungrounded circuits in my house (built in 1950.)

HTH, :-) Bob

[PJX]

You think that copper is wearing out?

Leave it alone.

[Doug Boulter]

Himanshu wrote on 23 Jan 2005:

Why not?

If you install a GFCI receptacle in the first box, you MAY install a 3-prong receptacle in any box downstream from it. Totally legal under the NEC.

There's a lot of discussion about the desireability of doing this. Read Sam Goldwasser's comments at

Essentially, you're depending on the GFCI receptacle for your safety when you use 3 pronged appliances in those new receptacles. Only you can decide whether that will be safer than what you have now (including the possibility that some idiot will use a 3-prong to 2-prong converter plug and just ignore the ground wire) if you leave the 2-pronged receptacles in place.

[Dan]

I would allow it in the jurisdictions I inspect for- Your own inspector might not- Give them a call and ask, most of us would much rather answer a question than fail an installation-

Dan

[Himanshu]

No. I want grounded receptacles for safety.

-- Himanshu

[Himanshu]

Thanks Bob. That was my first plan because code allows for that. However, the rule is that if the cold-water pipe is used as a ground electrode conductor, it can be done only within the first five feet of where the pipe enters the house.

This rule makes it difficult enough to consider the alternative: rewire only the first receptacles which would involve work only in the basement drop-ceiling and up to the recptacles. If I have to rewire the entire circuit I need to do work in the walls, ceilings/attic etc.

Anyway, there is one outlet that's quite close to the cold-water pipe that enters the house and I might try grounding just that one receptacle.

-- Himanshu

[Himanshu]

Doug, you are absolutely correct. This is a viable alternative. My reason for asking whether I could upgrade the wire to 14/2 from the panel to the first receptacle was because it seems easier to do (physically), as compared to upgrading the entire circuit.

Another alternative is to run a ground wire to the cold-water pipe, but there's a limitation on this - it has to be clamped to the pipe within the first five feet of the pipe entering the house, so that makes it more difficult for more than just one or two receptacles that are in that area -- I might as well run new wire.

If I can't rewire just the first receptacles according to interpretation of the code, then I would most likely go the GFCI (with "no equipment ground" marking as required).

Thanks.

-- Himanshu

[HaHaHa]

I cannot fathom any inspector issuing a violation for what you're planning to do. As an alternative, you could simply run a new circuit or 2 for brand new grounded outlets in the locations you need them only.

99% of household electrical equipment doesnt require a ground or a grounded outlet. I've yet to see a TV a VCR a stereo or a table lamp or a residential grade cooking, mixing, toasting, appliance with the third grounding pin.

[e-mail]

[zxcvbob]

The water pipe thing just means the Ground Electrode Conductor (GEC) must attach within 5 feet of the water service entrance (and you have to jumper around the meter.) The wire you are adding is not a GEC, it's an Equipment Grounding Conductor. The equipment grounding conductor connects to the electric panel, or to a GEC, or one of the grounding electrodes.

Run the ground wire all the way back to the main electrical panel (or subpanel that supplies the circuit if that's easier.) Ground the wire to the electrical panel with a fine-thread sheet metal screw, or run it inside to the grounding bus, or clamp it to the GEC with a split bolt.

Bob

[Nehmo Sergheyev]

- Himanshu -

interpretation

- Nehmo - You can replace the wiring and receptacles to any number of outlets and leave any number as they are. You do not have to replace everything when you replace something.

But while you're at it, use 12 gauge wire.

[toller]

Code does require that all conductors go through the same hole in metal. Presumably that applies to new grounds as well?

[zxcvbob]

It does not apply to new grounds for an old circuit. Certainly running all the conductors together is best when possible, but grounding conductors do not carry electricity except briefly during a fault, therefore they do not induce eddy current heating from a magnetic field.

Bob