On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 15:38:45 -0500, Home Guy wrote:
I think you're right because, digging up all I could, I found this:
Where it says:
"Some garage doors are installed without bearings.
If you have no bearing in your spring anchor bracket,
grease the shaft where it will be rubbing inside the cones."
So, I'm moving forward in the other thread on winding the torsion spring
for the first time ever in my life!
Thanks for taking the time to look & write. You're a saint.
Oh oh. I had called up Dan Musick today (800-383-9548) and I told him
there was no 'bearing' (but I didn't mention a 'bushing'). He said he's
seen 'more' problems from a middle bearing going askew than not having a
bearing at all - but now I realize I didn't clarify that I have neither a
bearing nor a bushing.
I think it matters because the 9 foot bar actually MOVES!
Yes. Apparently, from my observation anyway - the overdoor bar slides to
the right (standing in the center of the garage and looking at a single
right wound spring on the left side of center) about an inch as the door
goes up (and back to the left as the door goes down).
Here is Dan's torsion spring replacement DIY for a single spring single-
spring where he actually mentions the nylon bushing (not the bearing) in
Hmmm... I wish I had known enough to look before the spring broke!
Especially when you see these two pictures:
Notice the 9 foot bar seems to be sliding an inch to the right when the
door opens (and the bracket is pulled left); and then the 9 foot long bar
is slid an inch back to the left (and the bracket centers itself).
I think, over time, this will break the bracket. No?
Do anyone see the same thing with your single-torsion spring door, right
hand wound, mounted to the left of center?
It also worries me how much it the bracket is flexing.
Upon closer inspection, there is only a SINGLE BOLT holding that plate
against the wall!
Look at this picture (with the door closed):
Believe it or not, they have three BOLTS (not screws) holding the angle
iron in place - which means those three bolts holding the angle iron in
place were put in (from the outside) when the garage was built.
The weird thing is only ONE of those three bolts actually (also) holds
the bracket in place. So the bracket is free to move more than I think it
Guessing: It looks like they have some holes that are unused - probably
because they only went into sheetrock - with nothing below - which is why
it only has one bolt holding the bracket perhaps.
More data: I just screwed a long wood screw into two of the bracket holes
and they both had ONLY gypsum board behind them. So that's why they
didn't bolt the bracket with two bolts - but now I need to re-engineer
how that bracket is held in place.
Note: I can see why garage door companies don't want to upgrade springs
but this problem 'might' not even be due to the upgraded spring.
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:14:02 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
Sure looks wrong to me. I don't fully understand the forces involved,
but I do know bending a bracket back and forth isn't good.
Mine have always been double spring with a center bracket/bearing.
So the 2 springs cancel each others' attempt at lateral torsion shaft
And that would also mean the springs can't change in actual length,
since they are locked at both ends and the shaft doesn't move.
Guess that's why there's "spring engineers." Maybe.
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 19:20:39 -0600, Vic Smith wrote:
I don't disagree.
Had I known about this bracket flimsiness ahead of time,
I would have simply replaced my one spring with two springs.
It's easy to figure out what springs to use for that purpose.
The DDM Door site conveniently has this tutorial:
How to Convert from One Garage Door Spring to Two
It says that, as the garage door opens, the spring loses 7 coils
of length - so that must be what is twisting the bracket inward.
What is supposed to happen is that the shaft is supposed to
pull through the stationary bracket - but in my case, the
bracket is moving inward - instead of the shaft (apparently).
The explanation says if I had a second spring, it would cancel
out the forces. In addition, it says it's a bit safer. And, the
winding of any one of the two springs takes half the force.
Using this spring calculator, I can convert to two springs:
OLD: 2"IDx0.234"x26.5" RH ($36.58, 13,000 duty cycle)
NEW: 2"IDx0.187"x17.75" RH & LH ($21.08 each, 17,000 duty cycle)
NEW: 2"IDx0.187"x17.5" RH & LH ($20.84 each, 16,000 duty cycle)
NEW: 2"IDx0.192"x19.75" RH & LH ($23.50 each, 23,000 duty cycle)
NEW: 2"IDx0.207"x28.25" RH & LH ($34.29 each, 63,000 duty cycle)
NEW: 2"IDx0.218"x36.75" RH & LH ($45.88 each, 141,000 duty cycle)
Thanks for the ideas.
The flexing bracket is a weird problem - which might have been
there all along - or - as you intimate - it may have been
exacerbated by the thicker longer heavier spring.
I'm gonna send some photos to Dan to ask what he'd do.
As you noted, I can de-tension the spring another quarter turn.
Or, I can simply squish the spring a quarter inch or so.
In fact, following instructions, I had moved the spring OUT
(to the left) about 1/4 inch initially AFTER it was wound
(as per instructions) - so maybe - just maybe - I moved it
out to the left too far.
I will try to squish that spring to see if 'that' minimizes
the bending of the poorly mounted bracket.
Note: I pounded with a hammer and do not see any wood below
the bracket. That's weird that they picked such a lousy spot.
Now that I know it doesn't matter WHERE the bracket is mounted, I guess
I could move the angle iron to ANY location where there is an existing
I looked at my other two garage doors - and neither has this problem.
I see that 2x6 vertical stud - which I envy - as mine is just in
gypsum board. That picture gives me an idea to copy - except I'm
a bit worried about the extra 2 inches, having never installed a
garage door opener before.
Interesting. You have that "cripple stud" on the rollers too.
If I cut the sheetrock out, I might gain the 2 inches that I lose.
The roller in that picture looks bigger than the track!
Very sturdy. I don't have that. Mine just have the track brackets
but not that nice steel vertical support. I envy your setup!
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 22:42:56 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
I just looked at my 7 foot door. It has a center bearing. IMHO they
should all have a center bearing, or at least a bushing. The bearing
combined with the rod prevents the bending you are seeing on your
flimsy metal center spring base support bracket. Your spring seems
too long to me for a 7 foot door. However, a longer spring means more
coils, which means for the same amount of rotation the spring "winds
up" less, as a proportion of it's total windup capacity. I'm guessing
that the spring you have is for a taller (not wider) door which
naturally needs to wind the spring more as the taller door moves thru
it full up-down range. My double door simply has two springs that
each appear to be0 the same size as the one spring on my single door.
I think you are fooling yourself by thinking that the "bigger" (i.e.
longer) spring is providing you with extra "power". It may or may not
be since power is a function of materials, diameter (of the wire as
well as the spring), number of coils, amount of twist, and probably
some other stuff.
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:39:13 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:
I don't disagree.
Thanks for looking. I appreciate that since I only have my doors
to go by.
I may end up putting either a nylon bushing in there, or better
yet, a steel bearing. I think the original installer cheaped
out, saving himself a couple of bucks - but the homeowner loses.
I think it would prevent the 'sagging' of the one-inch hollow
rod that goes across the door. I don't know if the bearing
would prevent the bracket from bending 7 coils inward when the
door is open - simply because the bracket is supposed to be
I didn't count the coils - but the new spring is thicker
gauge wire - so - any one coil is thicker. The reason for
the thicker gauge wire is merely for duty cycles.
Since the wire is thicker, to lift the same door, the
spring will be either longer, or a larger ID. Since I kept
the ID at 2", the spring has to be longer to lift the same
You're absolutely right. I would be fooling myself if I
thought that. The 'only' reason for the longer spring is
I opted for a thicker gauge (0.250" rather than 0.243").
The only way you can get the same force with the thicker
gauge wire is to either opt for a larger ID or for a
longer spring. I opted for the longer spring.
But it should have the same force as the shorter spring
with the thinner gauge. It should only have a longer
duty cycle (by far).
Of course, it's ironic if this longer-duty cycle spring
tears the mounting plate off the wall. Certainly, I need
to find a solution.
For the next person who replaces their garage door spring,
I suggest looking first BEFORE it breaks, to see how it's
Mine seems more than slight. Seems to me mine NEEDS a bushing.
I called today to Home Depot & Lowes but they didn't even know
what I was talking about.
I think it also might prevent the shaft from 'catching' on
the bracket. Maybe if the shaft SLID sidewise (in a bushing)
better, it wouldn't be bending the bracket?
I will buy the 1" ID (2"OD) nylon bushing as soon as I can
find a local supplier. I might have to visit a garage door
company on Monday.
Here's my single door's center bracket. As far as I know the door is
original to the house, so it's about 57 years old. The torsion spring was
replaced something like 10 years ago, but not by me.
To be honest, I don't know if that's a bearing or a bushing, but the bar is
definitely supported in the center bracket by whatever that is. The
bracket is mounted with 2 lag bolts, one into the header and the other into
the cripple stud. It does not move at all as the door goes up and down..
Bearing or Bushing:
There's a family owned garage door company in my area. I've had 2 problems
with my garage door in the last ten years. One was a busted torsion spring,
the other I don't remember what it was...I think it was a cable.
Both times i called them, left them a key to the side door of the garage
and when I got home from work, the problem was solved for a reasonable
price. You can see the quality of work that they do, so it was money well
I still see their trucks on the road and have recommended them to a number
of my friends and co-workers.
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