Hinging is not necessary
This is the comment from the NEC handbook (under the definition of "accessible") "Wiring methods located behind removable panels designed to allow access are not considered permanently enclosed and are considered exposed as applied to wiring methods."
The operative word is "removable".
It is only things like fuses and breakers that need to be "readily accessible" where you are required to give access without tools.
The hole we made is bigger than just for the junction box. We opened the floor above the fan/light we are installing to make it easier to feed the wires from the source and switches into the junction box that is built into the fan. That's when we discovered that the source wires would barely reach into the fan. and besides even if they did reach, the cloth insulation at the ends was breaking down from heat, movement etc. I decided to cut them back about a foot to good clean insulation, install the junction box and run new romex to the fan. That way I have no cloth covered wire in the fixture.
I'd prefer not to leave the hole above the fan and junction box open in case someone crawls back there or decides to store something back there. It's right around a dark corner and I can imagine someone putting a hand in the hole and hurting themselves or the fan.
Installing the junction box flush with the floor might be possible, but the old source wire runs under a wall into the finished space where it's stapled or attached to the joist in some manner. I don't have a lot of room or much slack. I'm really reluctant to disturb the old wire any more than I need to because of it's condition. Cutting it back and adding the junction box in line with the existing wire is about as much as I want to do. Trust me, if you saw what I was up against, I think you'd agree.
I think I'll go with a drop-in panel, marked to note that there's a junction box below and add 2 finger holes marked with "Lift Here To Open.".
I cut the floorboards back to the center of the joists, so once the panel is dropped in, it can't fall out, tilt or shift, With that solution, the junction box and fixture will be accessible from above.
Thanks for the suggestions.
You may be right, it might be 16" inches. It's been a while since I've torn any walls out.
I might check when I get home. If I recall correctly, I can see the back of a bedroom wall from the access panel for the shower.
DerbyDad03 wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@nntp.aioe.org:
You can, if the floorboards are removable. Nail them in place, and you have a Code violation.
Visibility isn't the issue, it's accessibility.
The NEC says that all junction boxes must be "accessible" and defines that term as "capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building."
A junction box located behind a removable solid steel panel, although concealed from sight, is still accessible and therefore Code-compliant; a box behind a clear acrylic panel which has been cemented in place is visible but not accessible and therefore not Code- compliant.
One elegant solution might be a floor outlet. Get the correct floor box and you will have plenty of room for your splices and get an extra outlet to boot.
snipped-for-privacy@nntp.aioe.org:
Do screws equate to nails in this instance?
Even though I'm planning on going with a drop-in plywood panel that will just rest on the joists, I'm still curoius...
Is an access panel secured by screws allowed or does "removable" imply no tools required?
BTW, the drop-in panel will have a finger hole so that no tools, such as pry bar, will be required to remove it. We'll let gravity hold it in place.
ure or finish or
lear acrylic panel
te:
Not a bad idea...not something I want to get into with this project, but certainly something to keep in the old back pocket.
Make you access hole ~6" round and a floor box cover will fit when you decide you want one. You can put a couple screws in it and still be "accessible". The only time you need a "no tool" entry is when something has to be "readily accessible" (different thing)
On 9/24/2012 12:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...
That'll work, too...but if you thought ahead and were careful in the removal process you should be able to just lay the flooring removed back in the opening...
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I like the idea of making the box itself directly accessible from the attic floor, using an extender on the box if necessary to bring it up to the attic floor level, and then using a regular solid cover on the box so it is fully covered but easily accessible. In my attic, I did that, but used a cover with a cutout for an duplex outlet so I have an easy place in the attic to plug in a trouble light.
the opening...
That's probable...maybe I'll just do that. I could certainly cut a piece of plywood to fit tighter, but I don't know if that's necessary.
Thanks.
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Certainly don't see any reason it would be.
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The main reason would my anal need for something "more finished" than just lying loose floorboards over a hole.
On 9/25/2012 3:56 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...
So you'll lay loose ply instead... :)
Either is "fastenable" if desired (if really needed which is unlikely, too...)
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A "crawl space" typically refers to a basement - one in which you can not stand up - the level below the 1st floor.
DerbyDad03 wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@ib4g2000vbb.googlegroups. com:
No, it does not -- a panel secured by screws is fine.
That should be great.
I'm not quite sure what "typically" means "I'm still trying to figure out the concept of floorboards in a crawl space attic......"
I guess if you say "crawl space" by itself, most people would assume an area below the 1st floor, but if you qualify it by saying "crawl space attic", as I did in my OP and as trader did in his post, the term couldn't be construed as a "below the 1st floor" space.
If you Google "crawl space attic" either as a web search or an image search, you'll get lots of hits.
snipped-for-privacy@ib4g2000vbb.googlegroups.
You could put a hinge along one side of the insert to ensure it does not get lost when the cover is opened.
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