Let's say I need to extend some wires that run in the joist space below a crawl space attic above a bathroom. The crawl space has 1 x 4 flooring.
I know I can't simply remove the floor boards, install the junction box and then conceal it with the floorboards.
However, can I replace the cut out floorboards with a piece of plywood with an acrylic insert so that the junction box can be seen from above?
The plywood would be big enough to be used as an access panel spanning the joist bay, the "window" would be large enough for the junction box to be clearly visible.
Can you make the acrylic large enough to access the box and its cover and the bushings through the edges of the box that secure the wire? Maybe put a handle on the acrylic to make it easy to lift out of its recess in the plywood and more visible to anyone who is in the attic. Maybe someone with a lot of time can review the NEC.
You can "conceal" a junction box above a drop ceiling since it's easy to access the box by removing a ceiling tile. The same basic principle works in your attic. Leave a hole in the flooring, make a plywood panel a couple inches larger than the hole, and screw on a few scraps to the underside of the panel so it doesn't slide around.
I'm guessing you can't make the electrical connections accessible from the bathroom ceiling cuz it's a tiled ceiling. If that's the case, then just ignore this post.
If it's not a tiled ceiling, and you're open to the idea of putting a hole in the bathroom ceiling, then what do you think of:
I'd use a laminate trimmer or router with a 1/4 inch straight bit to make progressively deeper cuts in the floor boards over the middle of two neighboring ceiling joists (as you were needing to do anyhow), but then:
hold an electrical box snugly to the side of one ceiling joist and trace the outline of that electrical box on the top of the plaster or drywall ceiling.
drill small holes at the outer corners of that outline and cut out the plaster or drywall with a coping saw blade:
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Hold the blade so that it cuts on the upstroke to make as neat and clean a hole as possible on your bathroom ceiling. Perhaps use a pair of needle nose style locking pliers to grip the coping saw blade and/or a helper in the bathroom below with another pair of locking pliers to help guide the blade.
Put the electrical box in position and mark the mounting holes on the side of the joist.
Use an awl to dimple the center of each hole location, and predrill the holes using a flexible shaft (which you should be able to get at Home Depot) suitable for mounting in an electric drill:
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Attach your electrical box, make your connections and cover the hole in your ceiling with a blank plate:
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That way, you're not gonna pi$$ off any electrical inspectors, cuz that's the way they'd have wanted you to do it to begin with.
Cut some new 1X4's to fit in the hole in your attic floor and fasten them down.
*You could install the junction box flush with the floorboards and just put a blank cover on it. If that is not possible, just label the area where the box is located. Paint the spot with white paint and label it "Junction box below". It only needs to be accessible, not visible.
If this is that conduit that you were asking about a while back, you could install a junction box with an extension box or mud ring on it to bring it up to be flush with the floor.
To clarify, the entire attic, up to about 2' from where the rafters meet the top plate of the wall, is floored with 1 x 4 T&G. Walls were put up to create a room in the center of the attic. Behind these walls, where the rafters make it impossible to stand, is the "crawl space" that I am speaking of. My son wants to install a fan/light fixture in the bathroom below, and lucky for him, the location for the fan is below this crawl space, not the carpeted area of the finished room. That gives him access to area above the ceiling, but the wires for the existing light won't reach the coonections for the fan/light fixture because of the way the fan is built. We need to extend those wires with some new romex. I would rather replace the old cloth covered wires completely, but they go off under the floor to who knows where.
However, I'm not sure why you are having an issue with the concept. The attic in my house is a crawl space, but there is plywood on top of the ceiling joists to create a floor for storage. Why do floorboards in a crawl space seem like such a strange concept?
So replacing the cut out floorboards by simply screwing them back onto the joists is acceptable?
The problem is that the wires in a junction box may come loose (need to be able to open the junction box to fix the problem). Or if there is a problem with a circuit, you can open that junction box and test the wires.
If this is in a crawl space, can you get into the crawl space and then get to that junction box from below? If yes, then it is accessible!
I did that on my finished back porch. Doesn't allow access to anything outside the box though. I do have one dtha pobably wouldn't pass inspection. Done the same way but on a wall and inside a closet.
The NEC uses the wording readily accessible. That means you need to be able to get to it without damaging the building. So if your access panel is easily removable (hinged, pull out without cutting, damaging or disturbing anything etc) you are good. Visibility is not a requirement for what you described.
Sorry, somehow I got it in my head that you were wanting to rewire something in your bathroom ceiling, like a fan or ceiling light fixture.
If your new wiring doesn't have anything to do with the bathroom, then I think it would be OK to simply have an appropriately labeled plywood cover in your attic floor to access that junction box. Just paint the plywood or lumber white and mark it with a felt pen.
If the new wiring is going to the bathroom light or fan, then I expect any electrical inspector that ever sees that wiring would want to see access to that junction box from the bathroom.
You can see that on older homes where they did a first class job. The house where we lived when I was a kid had yellow pine T&G on the minimal height attic floor.
My house was built in 1956. All of the floors (except for the attic) are 1 x 6 T&G pine.
The walls and ceilings are made of some sort of 3/8" x 8" (?) brown paper covered T&G gypsum board, laid horizontally across the studs, then covered with 3/8" of plaster, making them 3/4" thick.
There's no wood lath, which makes some projects easier, but there is metal mesh in the ceiling/wall junctions which make some projects a major pain. All in all, it's a very well build house.
The house where I'm helping my son with the fan is a mess when it comes to the wiring. There is some real sloppy work that I simply do not want to mess with. Whoever wired to room that they added in the attic was a real hack.
If this is only a crawl-accessible attic space, what difference does it make about having a solid surface in the end, anyway?
I'd just make the access room needed, install the (metal) junction box w/ whatever blocking scheme is simplest facing up and flush or just under the flooring height and use a metal cover plate and be done...
The possible fly in the ointment is that you may need two or a larger than just a square box if you're having to cut into a run as there possibly won't be sufficient extra length in the existing run to make only a single junction...if it's the end of a run or you have access from another junction point that's simpler.
Techninally, no. Hinging the floorboard at one end and screwing down the other to make an "access panel" is. The hinge makes it obviously accessible. A screwed down floorboard less so.
To clarify, the entire attic, up to about 2' from where the rafters meet the top plate of the wall, is floored with 1 x 4 T&G. Walls were put up to create a room in the center of the attic. Behind these walls, where the rafters make it impossible to stand, is the "crawl space" that I am speaking of. My son wants to install a fan/light fixture in the bathroom below, and lucky for him, the location for the fan is below this crawl space, not the carpeted area of the finished room. That gives him access to area above the ceiling, but the wires for the existing light won't reach the coonections for the fan/light fixture because of the way the fan is built. We need to extend those wires with some new romex. I would rather replace the old cloth covered wires completely, but they go off under the floor to who knows where.
However, I'm not sure why you are having an issue with the concept. The attic in my house is a crawl space, but there is plywood on top of the ceiling joists to create a floor for storage. Why do floorboards in a crawl space seem like such a strange concept?
So replacing the cut out floorboards by simply screwing them back onto the joists is acceptable?
*Yes, but please label the location for the next electrician.
Thats how they did plaster walls after migrating away from wood and metal lath. I don't remember it being 8'. I think it (at least the stuff I saw) was 4' wide and maybe 16" high. A little searching says it was called "rock lath"
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