Interesting story about home automobile gasoline filling stations in residential property

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worker bee wrote:

The story just keeps getting better...
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I've had neighbors just like this.... --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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I presume you were forced to call code enforcement many times?

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No, it was in Atlanta. It was easier for me to move away. After they had sprayed their lawn (and mine) with a "diluted" defoliant to "make mowing easier." --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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I don't know how long you can get away with, but I know that I can store gas for the mower in September and it's marginal but usable in March. So I would guess that is about the limit without adding a stabilizer. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:05:17 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote:

I use up all the Chevron in the drum in about six weeks (give or take a few weeks either way).
This long-term-gas-storage Chevron web site says California reformulated mandated gasoline lasts as long as any other gas, even with the corn in it soaking up all that water. http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/technical_safety_bulletins / ltg_storage.aspx
They simply suggest you keep the fuel drum out of the direct sun (mine is in a loosely covered shed) and to keep the 55 gallon drum as full as you can to avoid moisture.
Two months is the absolute maximum my gas would stay unused, if that long, so shelf life just isn't all that big of a problem for me.
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worker bee wrote:

60 gal. of gas is more tan a big drumful. How come so much gas. in the yard? Gas blend changes from season to season.
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worker bee wrote:

Tony Hwang wrote:

Which got me thinking: You'd better clear-out all that gas, because the next step your neighbor is likely to take is to throw a cigarette at it.
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Home Guy wrote:

OP better have some special coverage on his house insurance. I have two small portable cans, one with regular gas, one for 2 cycle engine stored in my tool shed.
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On 12/3/2011 2:04 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Same here. I can't imagine what the convenience might be of filling cans to bring home to dump into another container to then pump into the car when I can just pull into a gas station and have the cars tank filled and occasionally fill the small cans that I use for the mower and the weedwacker.
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On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 23:25:05 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

:)
Cigarettes don't light liquid gasoline like they do in the movies, simply because a cigarette is about 475°F (plus or minus 25°F) while the ignition temperature of liquid gasoline is just slightly above that at around 500°F. So, of course a very hot cigarette 'could' ignite liquid gasoline - but not one thrown over the fence at me by my neighbor! :)
Fire is, of course, the biggest realistic danger.
Everyone manages that risk daily - for example, a one-car garage has roughly 20 gallons of gasoline in it in metal or plastic gas tanks; a two car garage has about 40, and a three-car garage has about 60 gallons of gasoline in them all the time. It's way more dangerous to have gasoline in a garage than outside, in a very airy structure to keep sun and water off the equipment.
My gasoline is kept outside, in a very well ventilated shed (it's almost not a shed, it's that well ventilated). Gas fumes in and of themselves are not flammable but when mixed with air, then of course, they're highly flammable in the right concentration near the floor of any enclosure.
The biggest danger is static electricity igniting fumes.
This can happen while fueling the vehicles at roughly 15 gallons per minute from the automatic-shut-off 1/4 HP 12VDC electric fuel transfer pump. To ward that off, the setup is well grounded, of course, with two copper rods (for redundancy), and a 10BC fire extinguisher is always nearby, just in case.
But a home filling station is no more dangerous than a commercial gasoline filling station is, and, in fact, less dangerous if the puny amounts of gasoline (55 gallons) are taken into account.
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But that is arson and that is something you can back at the neighbor.
--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
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Home Guy wrote:

A burning cigarette will not ignite gasoline. But your point is well taken; a thrown railroad flare will do the trick.
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Horse shit! A burning cigarett _will_ ignite gas fumes. Yes, you can put out a cigarette in a bucket of gas but you better know what the conditions are.
1. Must be cold weather. 2. Bucket must be absolutely full.
Fumes are what starts the fire.
Harry K
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We once had a fire started near our garage by an unknwon arsonist. The fire threatened two homes [ours & adjoining neighbor's] took out two buildings [including our garage] and three trees 40+ ft high trees with trunks so big two people would have to join arms to surround the trunks. The flames were 60 to 80 feet in the air and photos made national coverage. The fire was so involved one could easily get 3rd degree burns being near it. In other words, BIG FIRE! Inside the garage on a shelf was a metal, federally approved, 5 gallon gasoline container half full of petrol. The car in the garage was totaled, the paint all over the can burnt black and peeled off, but that can, and its contents, remained intact! The firemen were VERY skittish about its presence. So now I'm convinced to ALWAYS buy and use METAL fuel storage containers, those things work!
Footnote on the garage damage the garage was originally built for Model T, pre code construction, all redwood. The fire damaged the building so much it was of cousre condemned as dangerous, labeled such and the cost/burden to destroy the structure fell upon me. I hired a worker skilled at demolition and it took him TWO DAYS to dismantle the building, it was holding together that well. Probably could have simply shingled over the roof and used it for another 80 years. Oh well.
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The can didnt blow up because the air-fuel mixture was too rich to ignite. Heating it just made it more so. Fumes escaping from the can probably did burn as they mixed with air and was ignited.
Jimmie
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On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 20:45:40 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Actually, it's a 55 gallon drum and I don't seem to get even 50 gallons into it, strangely enough. But I generally fill it before it goes empty so I haven't filled it from empty since it was new a few years ago.
I use the gas up within two months (generally a month to a month and a half is when I refill) so I really doubt the seasons matter all that much - especially in California where there is really only one, maybe two at most, seasons anyway. There is a cool dry summer and a slightly cooler wetter winter - neither of which has a temperature swing you can't get in a single day in most other northern parts of the country.
My gas tank is about 20 gallons. The wife's tank is about 20 gallons. The bike is about 5 gallons. And the lawn mower and a half dozen other engines around the yard takes another 5 gallons.
So, a single fillup (which in practice rarely happens) will empty out the 55-gallon drum. I don't see how this amount is any different than most of you out there.
Don't you guys have a car for you, and one for the wife, and maybe a secondary vehicle? Don't you have lawn mowers? Don't you have other yard equipment? I would think 55 gallons is the bare minimum since all it does is fill the tanks just once.
What I 'really' want is TWO 55 gallon drums. Actually, I'd love a 200 gallon tank - but once you get over 60 gallons, you start getting into fire marshall permits & transportation permits and anything over 260 gallons for delivered fuel gets you into air resource board requirements.
So, 55 gallons seems a bare minimum, at least to me. Maybe you guys go to the gas station a lot more than I do? Or you and your wife drive the same car?
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On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 05:21:08 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I don't disagree we're not at all on speaking terms - but that has nothing to do with the convenience of filling up at home.

I have no idea how many 'other' people prefer the convenience of filling up at home. My friends astounded me when I told them because they considered it 'additional work'. I consider it less work. Especially for my wife who hates going to the filling station.
I guess it's all in your perspective of 'work' or 'effort'. To me, it's trivial to fill up once every six weeks (or so). It just takes a bit longer to pull the cans out of the pickup bed and fill them - but otherwise, it's less work for my wife (for sure) and just a bit less work for me (since I only have to fill up away from home once every six weeks).

Gas stations fill up thousands of cars a month. I fill up only a few times a month. Big difference in the need for vapor recovery nozzles.
However, I 'could' add that little rubber vapor recovery boot to the nozzle if I wanted to pay the extra hundred dollars for it. But, not only is there no law saying I must do so, it's my understanding that there are still states out there that don't even bother for their thousands of gas stations.
I may be wrong though. Are there still states that do NOT have a rubber boot around every gas pump nozzle?

I realize you're being sincere - and - I know you're a major contributor to the alt.home.repair newsgroup, so I respect your opinion. And, I wish to debate that, serious, with you.
Bear in mind, ALL my friends think the same way as you do, so I do understand that you may think it loony. However, I don't. I really don't.
I liken it, albeit I'm perhaps pushing the analogies a bit to far to why you have a well to deliver water to your faucet instead of driving down to the village well to carry a bucket home every day.
Or, why you buy canned food so you don't have to go to the village to buy fresh food every day.
Or why you stock up on batteries in case the power goes out and the generator doesn't kick in during a power outage - instead of just driving to the center of town to pick up batteries during open hours.
Or why you have more than one set of clothes instead of just washing the same pair every day.
Or why you bring more firewood into the house than you need so you don't have to go outside every time you run out of wood in the fireplace.
To me, it's the same concept. I do realize that most of you don't think this way, but some of you don't have solar panels, a whole-house electric generator, 1,500 gallons of propane tanks, multiple wells, a septic system, solar pool heaters, etc., for the 'utilities' of your house either.
For me, it's simply one more household utility that needs to be replenished every six weeks. (I wish I could go longer but regulatory problems kick in once you reach tank sizes of 60 and 260 gallons).
Do you at least see a 'hint' of my thinking (if not the convenience, per se)?

Good question. He's above me, on an open hillside. No house here is closer than a few hundred yards apart, some are miles apart. Most are, I'd say, about a quarter mile apart.
However, the lands abut. So, at the property line, he's only an inch away, so to speak. He 'can' see my tanks just as I can see his clothes hanging on the line (I, for one, use a gas dryer for the sheer convenience of drying my clothes even though we have an absolute abundance of sunlight).

I asked the cop about my suspicions. The cop shrugged and said there was nothing I could do since it was circumstantial. He said there's nothing wrong with someone complaining to the authorities.
And, to tell the truth, he's right. I only 'suspect' it's the neighbor (who else 'could' it be?).
But, I don't have any proof whatsoever. They all said it was an anonymous complaint. Plus, they've all visited in the past two months, and all left saying things were in order. One even said I used a lot of common sense in my setup, which met OSHA standards for commercial storage facilities, he said, except for the secondary containment horse trough - which I will add as soon as I find one locally.

You're not the first to suggest that - so I don't fault you.
I can only assure you that I 'wish' I had a second business making money for me on the side! :) I have lots of very hilly unusable land that I wish I could figure out a way to make money off of - but a single 55 gallon drum near the driveway isn't going to make me a whole lot of money in any way that I can envision as a business. :)
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On 12/3/2011 9:43 AM, worker bee wrote:

You are beginning to sound like a troll. Typically when numerous people give you the same answer they may just be right. I have never heard of anyone doing what you are doing and it is definitely more effort. You are just rationalizing that it isn't.

It is pretty tedious to fuel a car at a gas station and it does waste a few minutes each week. So you could hop into the wife's car and go to the gas station and fill it up instead of filing multiple small cans and hauling them home and dumping them into a bigger container and then filling your wife's car right?

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No matter how you try to spin it, you are costing yourself a whole bunch of extra effort and lots of time just to avoid making a few stops at a gas station. Bottom line is your reasoning is way _out there_ and you arent saving yourself anything.
Your friends are correct, you are loony if what you posted is the whole story.
Harry K
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