Integrating a new comp

Just got the new Lenovo T420 semi-configured . I have questions ...how do I get this Win7 Pro thing to talk to my XP comps on my home network ? And I know it was posted here but I can't find how to eliminate the Win10 nag . We ain't goin' there , I prefer to stick with an OS that keeps the info here at home and doesn't have all that spyware . If I thought I could make this thing run XP I might try , but I'm afraid drivers would be hard to find .
--
Snag



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wrote:

From my experience the W/7 machine will see the XP machine (file share) without any drama. Going the other way is a trick that I have not been willing to tackle. You need to set up some security doo dad on the XP machine that gets past the W/7 password wall. It is really a high hoop if you want to print on a w/98 machine but w/7 has no problem using an XP attached printer
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On 4/12/2016 10:08 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

What do you mean by "talking"? - SMB file/printer shares - IIS - other protocols
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On 4/12/16 1:08 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:

Re the nag and "forced" Win 10 upgrade, Daughter's Win 7 PC was getting pop-ups from Microsoft saying Win 10 would be "installed today". It would only allow a delay for about 3 days. Based on recommendation from IT guy at work, we installed an app (GWX10) that removes the icon and stops the "forced" upgrade to Win 10. Ran it about 3 weeks ago now, and no more nags or threats, and PC is working fine otherwise. Check it out at: http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html
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On 4/12/2016 12:18 PM, Retired wrote:

This is a cat and mouse game. The next "essential update" for the box can reinstall the nag mechanism -- requiring another patch/hack to disable that. As long as you're tied into the update process, you are at the mercy of MS to decide what software runs on your machine (because THEY are installing the software that THEY choose!)
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On 4/12/2016 1:08 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/gwx_control_panel.html
John
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John wrote:

Somebody else beat you to posting that link , but thanks for trying !
--
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| And I | know it was posted here but I can't find how to eliminate the Win10 nag .
I keep seeing articles like this at infoworld.com
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3053701/microsoft-windows/block-windows-10-forced-updates-without-breaking-your-machine-part-2.html
As Don Y said, it's a cat and mouse game. MS want to force it and will do whatever they think they can get away with. Each level of intrusion that people accept sets the stage for the next level. If you want to avoid Win10 you'll need to stay on your toes.
My approach on all my computers is to block all update functionality (Windows Update and BITS service on Win7). I always like to weed out unnecessary and/or unsafe services as part of setup. With Win7 I install SP1 and then disable updates. I would never let Microsoft touch any of my machines. They simply can't be trusted.
Many people think that approach is crazy, but the tradition of constant updates is a new one that results in unstable systems and was invented, in large part, as part of the move toward services. It's easier to sell people on the idea that they don't own and control the software they paid for if they're used to that software calling home on a regular basis.
In practice, Windows updates are of low importance. The critical updates are mostly for Internet-connecting software like browsers. If you avoid IE online and avoid MS Office -- or at least MS Office email attachments -- you've already solved much of the Windows security problem. The rest is Flash, Java, javascript, etc.
| If I thought I could make this | thing run XP I might try , but I'm afraid drivers would be hard to find . |
It depends on what you need. It's easy enough to check for your hardware. I still run XP on my main machine. I built a new box for it last year. I bought a new printer a few months ago. Most things still support XP because XP is still in wide usage and is not fundamentally different from Vista/7.
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On 4/13/2016 4:55 AM, Mayayana wrote:

Even if you "avoid W10", there's no guarantee that you can avoid the W10-sorts of "features" that MS wants to foist onto you!
MS has been "spying" for more than a decade. Most folks just gleefully ignored all of the warnings (EULA) each time you installed an update (or, allowed your machine to do it on your behalf -- so you didn't have to be *bothered*).
Most media files are associated with WMP. Unless you've taken explicit steps to PREVENT it from looking up "missing media information" from the Internet, it has been disclosing the names of each file that you play (or copy with ANOTHER PROGRAM!). Likewise, acquiring licenses for DRM-ed content.
[In theory, this is anonymized information. In practice, your machine has already been identified by a variety of techniques that you're virtually impossible to prevent. *Who* you are is just a short step from there.]
From the WMP EULA: "The purpose of the Player ID is to allow content providers to identify your connection. If a unique Player ID is sent, content providers will have the ability to correlate the information in your logs over multiple sessions." And: [fetching artist, title, album art, etc.] "Note that this option also applies to Windows Media Audio files that have been copied from CDs using the Player. These files contain an identifier for the CD and the Player will update these files with the downloaded related media information." Did you happen to notice that you can specify the update FREQUENCY for WMP but can't DISABLE its updates??
Of course, there's the flap over IE8 "apparently" stealing google searches (i.e., IE8 has been spying on your activities -- but, IE8 was an *update* that you invited in!)
And, the first invocation of IE (any version) always tries to load a page from MS.com as your start page (unless you are proactive enough to be offline when you first invoke it, change the start page and save those changes).
A DNS-lookup failure in IE causes MS to "help you" by passing the "URL" to MS for a more detailed "search". Of course, your HTTP headers disclose what browser you're using, what OS, etc.
Click Start | Search and watch to see which packets are squirted out of your machine -- and where they are headed. And, all you've done is click Start | Search!
Likewise, when you invoke the Help system
Have a program crash? MS would like to do a post mortem. Let your machine send the appropriate data to them and it discloses what you were running along with bits of your registry. (Of course, your registry is full of MRU entries that indicate what you have "worked on" in the past)
And, the REMOTE registry service is active, by default.
MS's firewall is software *they* wrote. So, can let any traffic through that *they* see fit. Anything that uses the raw socket interface can bypass firewalls running *on* the MS host.
etc.
(Those are just the easy things to stumble over. If MS is more determined to "report home", they got other methods I've previously mentioned to tunnel through even external firewalls! And, if you happen NOT to be on-line at the time they want to report these things, they've got gobs of disk space and places to stash that information for later retrieval!)
So, cling to something pre-W10. Play wack-a-mole with each new advertising scheme MS deploys. But, if you're still letting them install software on your machine INTENTIONALLY, you'll be drawn in the same W10 direction (even if your OS describe itself as 7even, Vista, etc.!)

+42
I do *offline* updates for my machines (so MS doesn't even know how many machines I have, here, as they don't contact MS to retrieve those updates). And, keep all of the machines offline so they can never leak information *or* be victimized by buggy/insecure code.
*Prior* to installing the updates, I reviewed them all (there are descriptions of the "problems" each are designed to address) and decided which I needed and which I could live without. I only have to do this ONCE and can then know that the update can be applied (or REapplied) to any machine that later needs it.

I'd disagree. I see it as a flagrant admission that MS has low confidence in the quality of their products. (ditto with other manufacturers going this way). If you look through the descriptions of the updates (esp the security related ones), you see the same sort of problem being fixed over and over -- in different places. As if they never learned from their FIRST screwup and put in place design techniques that would prevent those sorts of problems.
Now, of course, as people are accustomed to endless updates, it has morphed into the service oriented mentality. And, the notion that the vendor can control the software you run. Don't like the cloud? Fine, we'll put the cloud on YOUR machine and leave you in the same boat!

Often, drivers are removed from manufacturers' web sites. So, it can be tedious to chase down legacy drivers (I do this frequently as I am always maintaining and building machines for friends and local charities with donated hardware)
Of course, the first thing I do with *my* machines is start an archive of all of the pertinent drivers and other materials for each specific machine so I can RE-build it at a later date.
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| Even if you "avoid W10", there's no guarantee that you can avoid the | W10-sorts of "features" that MS wants to foist onto you! | ..... | Most media files are associated with WMP.
Good point. It's good to avoid *all* MS software, as much as possible. (As well as Google and Apple.) There's no reason to use WMP. The free VLC Media Player works great. Libre Office instead of MS Office. Firefox or Pale Moon instead of IE or Chrome. Firewall software instead of Windows firewall. Disk image backup in place of system restore and OEM restore partitions.....
| A DNS-lookup failure in IE causes MS to "help you" by passing the "URL"
There's opendns and opennicproject.org for DNS. I won't get into those details. It's a lot to explain for anyone who doesn't know what DNS is, but people can look it up.
| And, the REMOTE registry service is active, by default. | Indeed. As are lots of other things that shouldn't be running on stand-alone computers. There was an article just today about security risks with RPC, which is a perennial problem. If you allow outside communication in for file sharing, remote desktop help, etc, you're at high risk and that hole can't be closed.
| > Many people think that approach is crazy, but | > the tradition of constant updates is a new one | > that results in unstable systems and was invented, | > in large part, as part of the move toward services. | | I'd disagree. I see it as a flagrant admission that MS has low | confidence in the quality of their products.
If MS hadn't gradually established automatic updates as normal there would be no way to force-install Win10, much less acceptance of it. In '99 I remember a case where MS was caught looking in the Registry for info when people logged on to Windows Update. People were enraged. MS promised to stop. In the intervening years they've gradually acclimated people to thinking their computer doesn't actually belong to them.
A 3rd reason (besides services marketing and unfinished software) is beta testing. Non-coprorate Win10 users cannot turn off updates. That means the "civilian" customer base is working for free as a massive beta testing force. Once the bugs are ironed out with home users the fixes can be shipped to corporate users.
| Often, drivers are removed from manufacturers' web sites. | So, it can be tedious to chase down legacy drivers (I do | this frequently as I am always maintaining and building machines | for friends and local charities with donated hardware) |
I actually saw that recently with HP. Their site is a mess to begin with. I managed to find a driver for an early-XP-era scanner, even though one page said it no longer existed. But when I went back later I couldn't find that same download page. They just said the model was no longer supported. That's the first time I've seen a company actually refuse to provide drivers they've been providing in the past, for a product their customers are still using. I expect that must be pressure from MS, but it's still very sleazy.
I find, though, that it varies a lot. I had to get an older driver for a Xerox scanner recently. What a beautifully functional and simple site they had! No script required. No travelling between a dozen different servers the way HP does things. No redirecting a deep link to a useless homepage. Just a clear page with a clear download link, which I found easily through a search.
There are also differences in sources for the same thing. Example: A few years ago I had trouble getting chipset drivers. If I remember right it was VIA. They had just one chipset driver installer for all Windows versions, which they made available at their site. Yet the motherboard dealer (Maybe MSI? I'm not sure now) said they no longer supported older Windows systems. They were actually lying to block older Windows, despite that they didn't even make the drivers and that VIA was happy to provide them. If I hadn't found the VIA site I would have been out of luck.
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On 4/13/2016 7:30 AM, Mayayana wrote:

Different issue. The point is that specifying an "invalid" URl causes that information to be sent to MS -- to help you figure out what you REALLY meant to type (i.e., as "search from address bad" -- No, I didn't want to initiate a search! I just misspelled something!)

MS's rationale is: "Computers are complicated. Let's make things easy for everyone -- esp when it comes at THEIR expense and not ours!"
[neverending update cycle]

MS is not unique in this. All software vendors have adopted the "we don't have time to test it" mentality.
As a designer of *devices/appliances*, I find it amusing that there is an implied warranty in every product that *I* make, even though it is largely "software". Yet, a software vendor can disavow all warranties (beyond the distribution media itself) and no one seems to mind, this!
I've toyed with the idea of offering the hardware in my devices "for free" and charging to install the software on those items (to make them into the products they would otherwise have been). Then, disclaiming any warranty on that FREE hardware -- and gleefully claiming that the software also is devoid of warranties (for the same reason as PC software)
I.e., I'm "giving away" the equivalent of the PC and charging for the unwarrantied software that gives it purpose in life! If it fails to work as expected (or, if the free hardware breaks) <shrug>
I've not explored some of the subtler consequences (or extent) of MS's W10 "spyware program". E.g., as it pertains to HIPPA constraints. *Any* spying can be a violation of those terms in certain deployments.

If you are resourceful, you can usually find these things in other places. It takes a bit of detective work, though. E.g., getting the actual name of the file ("setup.exe" is an unfortunate one!). There are tools to search private FTP servers for squirreled away copies, etc.
Personally, I maintain an archive of everything that I can find for each piece of equipment that I own -- or HAVE owned in the past. I tend to cling to hardware longer than most folks ("if it ain't broke...") and may not realize the value of some particular "resource" until much later ("Ah! So THAT'S what this is for!")
I used to do this for every machine I built/serviced, as well. But, now spin that stuff off to a DVD and hope it is readable when/if I ever have to revisit that particular device (or a similar one). In the event I can't access that information, "Sorry, I don't have the stuff I'd need to fix that for you..."
Saving a copy of a web page that LISTS the drivers (and/or associates a purpose with each filename) can be a godsend down the road!
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And they can never be of much practical use in the year 2016. Once you start using the cloud you realize that it's far too useful to justify doing things the old way - unless you're working in a SCIF 100 feet underground in a bunker somewhere.

find .

I usually start by turning them on. (-: But seriously, look at Apple and Google Chromebooks. People will soon wonder why they *ever* had to fuss with drivers, backups and security the way Windows makes them.
--
Bobby G.



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| > And, keep all of the machines offline so they can | > never leak information *or* be victimized by buggy/insecure code. | | And they can never be of much practical use in the year 2016. Once you | start using the cloud you realize that it's far too useful to justify doing | things the old way - unless you're working in a SCIF 100 feet underground in | a bunker somewhere. |
There are lots of levels in between. I spend a lot of time online but don't use any "cloud" services and rarely enable risky behavior such as javascript. That's not an option if you spend your time as a Facebookie and Amazon denizen, but many of us don't. I also don't feel the need to diddle with Facebook, Twitter, or games when I'm on a bus or in a cafe, so I don't need a lightweight services device.
One can use any old device to get files from Dropbox, log into Facebook and send email. That can be very convenient if you don't actually use computers to do any kind of work. It's also convenient if you want to, say, read email while taking a bus to work. But it means that you no longer fully own your files and that you depend on commercial services for things you do with a computer. You're not using a computer. You're using a kind of interactive TV.
Software is also going cloud, except that it isn't. If you want the latest Photoshop you have to rent it. But it installs on your computer. The cloud part is that it's spyware and you can't buy it outright. Actually running such software remotely, as a real cloud service, would be unworkable for both the server and the client.
I think there's actually a version of Photoshop for phones now. Great. The perfect tool for the person who buys amazing screwdrivers with 157 bits from late night TV ads for only $3.99.
| > Of course, the first thing I do with *my* machines is start | > an archive of all of the pertinent drivers and other materials | > for each specific machine so I can RE-build it at a later | > date. | | I usually start by turning them on. (-: But seriously, look at Apple and | Google Chromebooks. People will soon wonder why they *ever* had to fuss | with drivers, backups and security the way Windows makes them. |
Indeed. I know people who would say the same about microwaves. Why have the hassles of a frig, pantry and pans when you can just buy a stack of frozen dinners? Suit yourself. Just don't expect friends to show up for dinner. One good thing about the microwave, though: While, like chromebooks it leaves you with very limited options, unlike chromebooks it's not a spyware appliance... At least not yet.
Actually I wonder why someone who's happy with a chromebook needs anything at all. Why not just get a computer phone? A lot of people seem to be doing that: People who never really needed a computer, don't want to deal with a computer, but do want "consumer" services and don't mind ubiquitous spyware and ads. If you're happy being a passive consumer and just want email, Facebook, restaurant recommendations, maps, etc, then a computer phone may be all you need. You can still post "Party on!" at Facebook and vote for your favorite amateur singer on network TV. That's the real test of a useful device. :)
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On 4/14/2016 6:48 AM, Mayayana wrote:

Because the cloud isn't designed for services that are highly interactive; you need "local processing" for any sort of complex interaction (anyone who has used a mail portal realizes how sluggish the interface can be -- even with a high-speed connection)

The cloud offers you location shifting capability -- start work on it from one location and finish working from another.
Plus pseudo-real-time sharing.

Or TV -- why have to WATCH something when you can HEAR it without committing your eyes to the task, as well?
Why bother with either -- if the Canadians invade, I'm sure one of my neighbors will clue me in on that! (A friend had to drive over to tell me when Challenger exploded)

How many people could easily live without an oven? Stove? Aside from baking, our oven sees no use -- stovetop, microwave and countertop toaster/convection handle ALL of *our* meals.
We rarely use the dishwasher as we can wash two plates in less time than it would take to load and unload from the dishwasher!
etc.
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On 4/14/2016 2:41 AM, Robert Green wrote:

Really? And why do I need to have CONVENIENT access to the internet from a machine that I'm using to render 3D models of products? Or, layout circuit boards for those products? "Gee, how do you access your email or USENET -- or, read the newspaper! -- from that machine?!"
"Ans: I don't. Because I don't NEED to access my email or USENET or read a newspaper from that machine. Just like I don't need to do those things when taking a shower, working on the car or eating lunch. Or, while in a meeting with a client, etc."
The appeal of the cloud is for sharing with others -- including yourself (location shifting).
"Gee, but what if someone announces a new component that could make my design simpler WHILE I am in the process of designing it?"
"Ans: you freeze your implementation choices AT SOME POINT. Thereafter, news of some radical new device is likely to be met with, 'Wow! I wish they had invented/announced that a week earlier! Too late to make those changes, now..."
The downside risk of internet-connected machine that has no explicit NEED for that connection FAR outweighs the "savings" -- the need for me to get up and walk to *this* machine to locate something on-line, check my mail, etc.

Last time I checked, you couldn't get a 12x18 digitizer with your Chromebook. And, connecting SCSI drives was a bit ... impossible. Ditto scanners, motion controllers, other sorts of pointing devices, pen plotters, a variety of wired printers, PROM programmers, etc.
(Ah, connect all of those to a DIFFERENT device -- say, a PC? -- and talk to them THROUGH that machine?)
I have 7 laptops (IIRC). Yet, hardly use any of them -- because ALL they can do is let me type and view stuff. In order to do anything useful, they have to be docked to gain physical access to (some) peripherals. And, even docked, have to rely on other machines for access to other devices (through the "drivers" installed on those machines).
So, the laptops amount to little more than portable typewriters.
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Robert Green posted for all of us...

What cloud services are recommended. Comcast doesn't provide storage anymore. (Same price or more-less features) I want to save some Quicken files and used to have a double backup with a (th)dumb drive.
--
Tekkie

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On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 1:07:35 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:

Go to Control panel, network and sharing center, connect to a network
or set up a new network.
And I

Can't help you with that. I have Win 7 running here and haven't been getting nagged. But I also have it setup for notifying me of updates and let me choose when to install them. I'm due for about 20 updates that I haven't installed, going back a few months, I guess. Maybe when I put them in I will start getting the mesgs, IDK.
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Terry Coombs wrote:

My thanks to all for the suggestions . The network problems have now apparently been ironed out , and the Win10 forced install problem has (apparently) been solved by installing the GWX control panel that was suggested . Mama likes it ... and I get the Tosh back for whatever I want to do with it . Got a touchpad problem right now , might be that I didn't get it reconnected correctly when I installed the new processor .
--
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