Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall

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I want to install a STRONG shelf on my garage wall about a foot above the floor. The shelf will be on the wall between the garage and the house.
I plan to attach a 2 by 4 to the wall with lag bolts into the bottom plate of the wall. The back of shelf will sit on the 2 by 4 attached to the wall and the front will sit on another 2 by 4 supported by 2 by 4 legs.
(The garage floor is about a foot below the finished floor of the house which is above the crawlspace. I live in an frost-free area so I do not have a basement. The bottom foot of the wall in the garage is concrete.)
I want to attach 2 by 4 cross pieces to the front and back 2 by 4's with joist hangers about every 16 inches. I plan to attach the legs to the front 2 by 4 with upside-down joist hangers. I will use drywall screws to fasten the joist hangers to the 2 by 4's. I will use the largest particle board shelf I can find at Home Depot or Lowes as the top of the shelf. I think I have seen some that are 8 feet by 16 inches by about 0.75 inches thick.
Does what I have described sound like a good plan? Can you think of anything I could change that would make the shelf easier to make, or less expensive? Thank you in advance for any help.
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:48:29 AM UTC-4, Daniel Prince wrote:

Can you use 16 inches instead of 12? Just stack two concrete blocks. Put the shelf on top of them. Stronger and cheaper.
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"TimR" wrote in message
On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:48:29 AM UTC-4, Daniel Prince wrote:

Can you use 16 inches instead of 12? Just stack two concrete blocks. Put the shelf on top of them. Stronger and cheaper.
They make 4 inch wide blocks also. stick them together with a few dabs of caulking. WW
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On 7/3/2013 10:48 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:

...

Just how strong is "STRONG"? How much weight and of what type (concentrated vs distributed) load?
I'd be _very_ surprised if you put enough on it that simply nailing up a frame w/ 16d commons thru the outer rims before mounting to wall wouldn't be sufficient. I'd probably just notch the legs and nail them as well and dispense w/ the hangers.
Also, if you really are talking of supporting a lot of weight, 3/4 CDX ply is much more suitable than particle board (albeit that's a cost boost, not decrease).
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Purpose of "shelf"? What kind of load do you expect, and what dimensions? Sounds more like you're building a bench...
I'd build the basic frame on a flat floor to make sure the frame ends up being flat. Don't use drywall screws, they're brittle and will snap under load. Consider bracing the lower portion of the legs to prevent the legs from shifting/weakening under load. Or just use concrete block as another post suggested.
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On Wed, 3 Jul 2013 11:22:22 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Unless I knew what's it for, it's hard to say. A single shelf a foot off the floor? Why even attach it to the wall? I'd call it a platform, because it's too low down to call it a workbench. But maybe it is a bench, like for an audience. If the floor is dry and is flat enough, one thing nobody mentioned is what I'll just call "floor shelf." Whatever color you want the shelf to be, just paint the floor that color in whatever size shelf you want. So nobody misunderstands your intent, paint or decal "SHELF" around the border. The real beauty of the floor shelf is when something falls off the shelf to the floor, it doesn't have far to go.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I have two old bookcases and a steel cabinet against the wall. I had several termite mud tunnels behind the bookcases and the cabinet that I could not see. I want to put the bookcases and the cabinet on the shelf with the space under the shelf empty so that I can easily see any termite mud tunnels. The bookcases are lightly loaded but the steel cabinet is full of power tools and extension cords so it is moderately heavy.

Can you recommend screws that are as easy to drive as drywall screws but are not brittle?
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On 7/4/2013 12:20 PM, Daniel Prince wrote:

Actually, I've never had a DW screw snap under load. Yes, sometimes, in some materials, they will snap while driving them in. But that's a twisting action, not pure shear or tensile. I put up shelves in my garage using a 2x2 frame under each 1/2"+ OSB shelf surface. The verticals are only 1x2s and the diagonal supports on the bottom are 2x2s. All done with drywall screws into the studs in the walls. The frame itself is nailed together with pneumatic finishing nails. I can put my 200+lb body on the shelves with virtually no movement. I actually have a pic of me on the shelf, but I will spare you that site. Check out this pic https://picasaweb.google.com/110114360581351833631/OurFranklinHouse?noredirect=1#5608169412516223618 and the next few. Presently, there is a lot more weight on them than in the pic.
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On 7/4/2013 11:20 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:

...

If they're only in compression and not shear they'll serve to hold pieces together, but, as noted previously, why? Just nail it together; if you arrange it right all they're doing is holding the pieces in place.
As suggested before just build the square frame and fasten it to the wall then use a few strategically-located legs(+) under for supports. If you either just fit them under (w/ a scab to hold in place) or (better) notch to match, then the weight is all transferred to them and the fasteners aren't doing anything to hold up the weight; that's being borne by the end grain of the legs and the compressive load on the frame/shelf. No need to make it any more complex than needs be...
(+) Since is garage and you've indicated some existing termite issues, I'd suggest using p-treated for the parts touching floor/concrete and the back wall cleat/frame piece. That'll minimize desirability of the pieces that are in contact and not fully visible at least.
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On Thu, 04 Jul 2013 09:20:53 -0700, Daniel Prince

Spax screws Check out Lee Valley and McFeelys www.leevalley.com www.mcfeelys.com
http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?pG226&cat=3,41306,41315,47226
http://www.mcfeelys.com/spax-screws
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On 7/4/2013 1:43 PM, TomR wrote:

...

...[big snip for brevity]...
+1
Other than OP may want to keep the (I presume file) cabinet -- if so, that would definitely be candidate for the block support idea so can check underneath...
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It is the type of wardrobe cabinet factories use for workers. It is two feet wide and about six feet high.
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Daniel Prince wrote:

If you want to keep the wardrobe cabinet, maybe just put that up on a few bricks or blocks so you can look under it for termite tunnels. And then just get two sets of the shelves that I posted about earlier and use them to replace the wooden shelves that you have now.
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"Daniel Prince" wrote in message wrote:
Snip

Can you recommend screws that are as easy to drive as drywall screws but are not brittle?
--
I use dry wall screws on all types of woodworking. The only time having them
break is on twisting (as when driving into oak and forgetting to pre drill.
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On 7/5/2013 6:42 AM, WW wrote:

gold deck screws from the borg
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I'm purposely not getting into argument about the strength of drywall screws because I don't think that's the main concern here.
I'd be more concerned about dampness, thus the suggestion to use PT wood for any wood that touches concrete.
Drywall screws will rust and eventually disintegrate if they remain wet. I would suggest that you use Deckmates or other such screws that are designed for exterior use.
Not only will they last longer, but the star drive will make them much easier to install.
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On 7/7/2013 9:57 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...

...
And, there's really no need for screws, per se, anyway...other than the one ledger against the wall, possibly, and even there a 12 or 16d common will be all it'll ever need. And, as for the rest of the frame, ditto. There's nothing in tension to need anything more if it's designed at all smartly.
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Given the choice of attaching the ledger with screws or nails, I'll choose screws every time. In fact, given the choice of nails vs. screws for any attachment, I'll choose screws virtually every time. Easy install, easy removal, etc.
Obviously there are times when nails make more sense, like trim, etc. However, if I'm building a frame for a shelf or anything similar, it's getting screwed together.
Granted, if I had a framing nailer or even a palm nailer, I might use nails for some projects, but when it's a choice between a hammer and screw gun, the screw gun wins out every time.
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On 7/7/2013 11:28 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...

...
OP said he was going w/ lag's for that so I presumed we were talking the frame, etc., primarily if not exclusively. OTOH, for his purpose, it'll never come off o' there if just nailed, either--

I've got both but the hammer will win almost every time w/ me--it's less nuisance and cheaper and unless there's a real reason for the screw it just doesn't turn me on (so to speak... :) )...
A prime reason may be you'll play the devil driving a screw of _any_ sort in any of this 100-yo SYP which is 90% of what I'm generally dealing with either in the house or any of the outbuildings. OTOH I _can_ drive a nail in it.
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On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 14:57:15 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

I use square drive (aka Robertson) when I have a choice. But to each his own.
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