Thanks. Yeah, the old kitchen was long overdue for a remodel. They lived
there 50+ years, but when we gutted the room we could see framing for
different windows indicating it had been remodeled at some point before
that (the house is approx 100 years old).
The old kitchen was only 8 feet wide, and actually had a dining table in it
too (under the cabinets on the right). To make matters worse, it had
doorways at each end, making it the major path to the bathroom and back
door. If anyone was working in the kitchen, you could barely get past them
to access the bathroom.
They had to replace their refrigerator a few years before we remodeled and
the new fridge was a bit deeper than the old one. So much so that they
couldn't open the door because it would hit the dining table. As a quick
fix, I built them a smaller dining table (See "dining table" on the page
We moved the interior doorway to the center of the room, and expanded a
4'x8' section onto the old porch. The difference in usable space is
amazing. Several people can stand in the kitchen now and still not get in
It's still a small kitchen, but it's a huge improvement from what they had
On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 2:18:34 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Has anybody asked what the installation instructions say?
Another possible solution is to find a different type of light
that is easier to deal with, maybe separate transformer, that
could be plugged in somewhere, under sink outlet maybe, etc?
On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 07:03:43 -0800 (PST), trader_4
An inspector would say you can't use cords inside the wall, you can't
connect an 18 ga wire to a 15 or 20a circuit unless it is part of a
fixture connected in a listed canopy and all wires connected to a box
must exit through a listed connector, just as a start, based on some
of the ideas I have seen here.
He should mount a box, with a receptacle in it, perhaps inside a
cabinet to keep mama happy and put a plug on that cord
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 05:18:00 -0800 (PST), trader_4
For the record, FWIW, I was really just asking Derby because he got my
If it's against code, I'm not counting it as an alternative.
We're talking about a wire coming straight out of the wall, from an
opening in a junction box within the wall, aren't we? How could that
not be a code violation?
In your other reply to me, iiuc in place of a wire coming out of the
wall, from a junction box within the wall, you were suggesting a
surface mount junction box. I think that would be less aethetically
pleasing than a plug on a wire.
On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 1:11:32 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
The OP didn't say that was how he was going to do it. It wasn't clear
what he was going to do, unless you're a mind reader:
"Is it ok to install these lights behind an existing 20 amp outlet?"
The possible code violation I was addressing was the issue that Don
brought up. Current code requires dedicated 20A circuits for kitchen
appliances. If it's a circuit that was subject to that, then according
to Don, adding some other wired in load is not code compliant. And I
think he's probably right, but I'm not going to go look it up.
I never suggested a surface mount junction box.
If you want another solution, how about finding one of the many
other LED alternatives that have transformers that you can plug
in? Or at least a transformer that is separate from the led fixture?
On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 05:18:00 -0800 (PST), trader_4
"Fairly new" if you have trouble remembering the difference between
Lyndon Johnson and Andrew Johnson. I think it first showed up in the
68 code. It was certainly essentially the same as it is now in the 75.
Maybe. But maybe meant to be sold in Europe too so they dont' know
what plug to put on the end.
This sort of contradicts that idea, but I still can't imagine selling
something that requires wires coming out of the wall beside or through
the wall plate. I've done that with my TV co-ax, with my bathroom
speaker wires, and with an telephone extension flashing light (for
when the bell is off but I'm awake, so I'll know the phone is
ringing.) I certainly wouldn't do it with 110V.
IOW max 0.6 amps output.
FWIW, if it outputs 14.7w, the input actually used is less than
twice** that, less than 1.2 amps. But if the wires short to each
other or ground, you'll see a spark far bigger than that.
**Twice would mean only 50% efficiency, and transformers are better
On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 11:24:31 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
I can pretty much guarantee that the install instructions don't say
to do it that way. The correct way would be to wire it into a
junction box and I would hope that's what the instructions would say.
I've done that with my TV co-ax, with my bathroom
Wrong concept here. What you look at is *power* on both sides.
The secondary is 15W, that means ideally, the primary is 15W,
giving a current of 125ma at 120V. It will be a bit more than
that because of losses, but that's the conversion concept.
Using your method, a battery charger that supplies 25A, would be
pulling less than 50A? It sure would be less than 50A, because it's
on the order of 2.5A @ 120V
See above. You're using equal currents on both sides, when it's
actually equal power.
Thanks for all the feedback! I realize my description might have been bad
enough to cause more confusion that I expected. As I mentioned, I'm a mech
anical guy so I'm not familiar with electrical terms and I only remember ba
sic stuff from school like P=VI.
Check out these two images to see what I'm trying to do.
This image shows the following:
- The LED panel (with what I referred to as the three "bare leads")
- The outlet on the left is the one I would like to use to power the panel
- The remote switch
This cross section diagram is my attempt to show what I want to do.
- The 3 wires coming out of the LED panel would get connected (spliced?) on
to corresponding existing wires inside the wall. This is what I mean't by
"behind an existing 20amp outlet".
- The orange circles show the connection (splice?) points
Other points of clarification
- The LED panel does not consume 15amps. I can't find the specs in any doc
umentation, but it may or may not be "rated for 15amp circuits".
- The LED panel has output specs of 24V, max 14.7W.
- The LED panel input spec only says "120V". But, in some other documents,
I found a spec that says "Power: 5.3W". Not sure what that means.
- I don't want to attach a plug to the cable and plug it into the outlet fr
om the outside.
firstname.lastname@example.org posted for all of us...
You have to run those 129v leads into some kind of jbox. The jbox must be
fed. The jbox cannot be inside the wall but it can be mounted creatively.
J ad a detailed reply written but the power went out so others can look at
your pix and help guide you. I would just use a plug to an existing outlet.
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