installing 15 amp cabinet lights into a 20 amp circuit

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Thanks. Yeah, the old kitchen was long overdue for a remodel. They lived there 50+ years, but when we gutted the room we could see framing for different windows indicating it had been remodeled at some point before that (the house is approx 100 years old).
The old kitchen was only 8 feet wide, and actually had a dining table in it too (under the cabinets on the right). To make matters worse, it had doorways at each end, making it the major path to the bathroom and back door. If anyone was working in the kitchen, you could barely get past them to access the bathroom.
They had to replace their refrigerator a few years before we remodeled and the new fridge was a bit deeper than the old one. So much so that they couldn't open the door because it would hit the dining table. As a quick fix, I built them a smaller dining table (See "dining table" on the page below):
http://www.watsondiy.com/woodworking.htm We moved the interior doorway to the center of the room, and expanded a 4'x8' section onto the old porch. The difference in usable space is amazing. Several people can stand in the kitchen now and still not get in the way.
It's still a small kitchen, but it's a huge improvement from what they had before.
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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On 2/28/2016 11:50 PM, HerHusband wrote:

That really is a nice kitchen!
--
Maggie

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On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 06:10:41 -0000 (UTC), HerHusband

They have some cord protecting stuff that just sticks to surfaces. It is a plastic "C" shaped stuff that the cord snaps into then you peel and stick. Legal and not bad looking.
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On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:18:26 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

If you want to be pedantic it is
Black - ungrounded conductor White - grounded conductor Green - grounding conductor but there is a push to call that the bonding conductor.
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On 2/25/2016 6:03 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

In you want to be clear in single phase service (not to be confused with rare two-phase service)
Black = L1 (line)
Red = L2 (line)
White = N (neutral)
Green or bare = G (ground)
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Could be brown, orange, red, blue, black, yellow, etc. Just not white or green.

Could be brown, orange, red, blue, black, yellow, etc. Just not white or green.

Green, Green with yellow tracer, bare.
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On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 2:18:34 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Has anybody asked what the installation instructions say?
Another possible solution is to find a different type of light that is easier to deal with, maybe separate transformer, that could be plugged in somewhere, under sink outlet maybe, etc?
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On 2/25/2016 11:44 AM, snipped-for-privacy@google.com wrote:

Then you want it to be "Code compliant"! Period.

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On Thu, 25 Feb 2016 07:03:43 -0800 (PST), trader_4
An inspector would say you can't use cords inside the wall, you can't connect an 18 ga wire to a 15 or 20a circuit unless it is part of a fixture connected in a listed canopy and all wires connected to a box must exit through a listed connector, just as a start, based on some of the ideas I have seen here. He should mount a box, with a receptacle in it, perhaps inside a cabinet to keep mama happy and put a plug on that cord
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On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 20:17:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

Outside the US I would expect to see them brown and blue
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On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 05:18:00 -0800 (PST), trader_4

For the record, FWIW, I was really just asking Derby because he got my goat.

If it's against code, I'm not counting it as an alternative.
We're talking about a wire coming straight out of the wall, from an opening in a junction box within the wall, aren't we? How could that not be a code violation?

In your other reply to me, iiuc in place of a wire coming out of the wall, from a junction box within the wall, you were suggesting a surface mount junction box. I think that would be less aethetically pleasing than a plug on a wire.

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On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 1:11:32 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

The OP didn't say that was how he was going to do it. It wasn't clear what he was going to do, unless you're a mind reader:
"Is it ok to install these lights behind an existing 20 amp outlet?"
The possible code violation I was addressing was the issue that Don brought up. Current code requires dedicated 20A circuits for kitchen appliances. If it's a circuit that was subject to that, then according to Don, adding some other wired in load is not code compliant. And I think he's probably right, but I'm not going to go look it up.

I never suggested a surface mount junction box.
If you want another solution, how about finding one of the many other LED alternatives that have transformers that you can plug in? Or at least a transformer that is separate from the led fixture?
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On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 05:18:00 -0800 (PST), trader_4

"Fairly new" if you have trouble remembering the difference between Lyndon Johnson and Andrew Johnson. I think it first showed up in the 68 code. It was certainly essentially the same as it is now in the 75.
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On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 12:32:17 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

They will light the space inside the wall, between the 2 studs on each side of that outlet. Maybe he could then put a glass block or two into that wall so the light can be seen.
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wrote:

I missed this part. Bare leads or not, buy a plug and connect it to the leads. You probably need a plug with screw connectors. Do they still sell the small 2-prong ones?
Yeah, but nowhere near as many styles as before: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Double-Pole-Flat-Plug-Black-R55-48643-0DE/202077705 and maybe these two http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-125-Volt-Light-Duty-Plug-R52-00101-0WP/100356964 http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-10-Amp-2-Pole-Straight-Blade-Plug-White-R52-00123-00W/202077684 but the video in all 3 cases is unrelated to the plug, so I can't tell if either of these have screws inside. Probably not. Forget I mentioned them. And if it says Quick in the name, probably won't work either.
It's good to save the cords from things one throws away, so you can solder a plug and a few inches of cord onto bare wires or when a plug fails. I have a box of 20 of these already, in various colors.

Maybe. But maybe meant to be sold in Europe too so they dont' know what plug to put on the end.

This sort of contradicts that idea, but I still can't imagine selling something that requires wires coming out of the wall beside or through the wall plate. I've done that with my TV co-ax, with my bathroom speaker wires, and with an telephone extension flashing light (for when the bell is off but I'm awake, so I'll know the phone is ringing.) I certainly wouldn't do it with 110V.

IOW max 0.6 amps output.
FWIW, if it outputs 14.7w, the input actually used is less than twice** that, less than 1.2 amps. But if the wires short to each other or ground, you'll see a spark far bigger than that.
**Twice would mean only 50% efficiency, and transformers are better than that.

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On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 11:24:31 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

I can pretty much guarantee that the install instructions don't say to do it that way. The correct way would be to wire it into a junction box and I would hope that's what the instructions would say.
I've done that with my TV co-ax, with my bathroom

Wrong concept here. What you look at is *power* on both sides. The secondary is 15W, that means ideally, the primary is 15W, giving a current of 125ma at 120V. It will be a bit more than that because of losses, but that's the conversion concept.
Using your method, a battery charger that supplies 25A, would be pulling less than 50A? It sure would be less than 50A, because it's on the order of 2.5A @ 120V

See above. You're using equal currents on both sides, when it's actually equal power.
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On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 05:27:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Not wrong concept but a calculation that didn't match my concept. Thanks for the correction,
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wrote:

I really hope those "Bare Leads" are really insulated wire!!! Otherwise there could be a serious fire hazzard as code violation!
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the feedback! I realize my description might have been bad enough to cause more confusion that I expected. As I mentioned, I'm a mech anical guy so I'm not familiar with electrical terms and I only remember ba sic stuff from school like P=VI.
Check out these two images to see what I'm trying to do.
http://imgur.com/HXs2qpZ This image shows the following: - The LED panel (with what I referred to as the three "bare leads") - The outlet on the left is the one I would like to use to power the panel - The remote switch
http://imgur.com/37gQ508 This cross section diagram is my attempt to show what I want to do. - The 3 wires coming out of the LED panel would get connected (spliced?) on to corresponding existing wires inside the wall. This is what I mean't by "behind an existing 20amp outlet". - The orange circles show the connection (splice?) points
Other points of clarification - The LED panel does not consume 15amps. I can't find the specs in any doc umentation, but it may or may not be "rated for 15amp circuits". - The LED panel has output specs of 24V, max 14.7W. - The LED panel input spec only says "120V". But, in some other documents, I found a spec that says "Power: 5.3W". Not sure what that means. - I don't want to attach a plug to the cable and plug it into the outlet fr om the outside.
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snipped-for-privacy@google.com posted for all of us...

You have to run those 129v leads into some kind of jbox. The jbox must be fed. The jbox cannot be inside the wall but it can be mounted creatively.
J ad a detailed reply written but the power went out so others can look at your pix and help guide you. I would just use a plug to an existing outlet.
--
Tekkie

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