installing 15 amp cabinet lights into a 20 amp circuit

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On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 11:28:20 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

The alternative would be to do what he apparently suggested in his first post, wire it into an existing circuit that feeds a receptacle. That may be a code violation, because current code requires 20A circuits for appliances to be plugged in and AFAIK, you can't put other loads on it. But it's a 14W LED and insignificant as far as effecting the ampacity, so I could live with it.
I'm not sure it even is a code problem. The 20A circuit reqt for receptacles is relatively new. If he has an older house, not subject to that at the time, IDK if it really is a code violation, ie what says that he can't tap into an existing circuit? He's adding an LED, not adding counter receptacles.
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On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 8:18:11 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

I'm still trying to picture how that would be done from a physical perspective. Assuming the GFCI is in a standard receptacle box, the connections would need to made inside the wall and inside the box.
I guess I'd like to see his "bare lead" transformer, but if it's similar to the one that I linked to, it has to be mounted someplace and then the wires have to somehow have to pass through the wall and into the receptacle box. It sounds like flush mount junction box would be required to accept the wires from the transformer (with a proper fitting of course) and then Romex would need to be run from that junction box to the receptacle box.
Perhaps there is an existing (remote) junction box for the receptacle circuit that could be used, but then the wires need to be run from the transformer back to the fixture itself.
It seems like we are adding more complexity, and therefore possibly more code issues, than just using an existing lighting circuit or even new circuit if need be (and possible).
Am I missing something simple on the "physical installation" front?

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On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 9:59:32 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I don't think so. Most of the LED things like under counter lights are probably added in some half-assed way by the homeowner or they are made with a transformer that has a plug. I've seen hardwired ones done right with the transformer mounted inside a cabinet or down in the basement. Depending on where it's going, the plug in type could be fine, assuming it's off to the side, behind some counter appliance, etc where the cord isn't objectionable.
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On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 10:06:16 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

But he specifically said:
"The lights are an LED panel with a built in transformer, with bare leads intended to be hardwired inside the wall, and a remote switch. "
I thought that we discussing his exact situation, not a situation where a plug in type transformer is present.
OK, so his transformer isn't like the freestanding one that I linked to, but it sure sounds like that style of transformer is inside the fixture. Bottom line is that he has 2 bare wires that he has to attach to a 110VAC source.
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15 amps of lights, on a 20 amp circuit. Does not leave much capacity for other devices which might be plugged in.
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On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 11:13:52 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

What 15 amps? It's a an LED, 15 watts.
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On 2/23/2016 12:19 PM, trader_4 wrote:

The subject of this thread is a 15 amp cabinet lights.
THAT 15 amps.
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On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 6:32:00 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yes, you're right. Funny no one else commented on that. IDK what that's all about.
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On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 05:24:04 -0800 (PST), trader_4

I don't read subject lines. Don't know about everyone else.
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On 02/23/2016 05:32 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
[snip]

So you have a 1800 watt (15A * 120V) light. Maybe it's a warming cabinet (to keep food warm). Put in a dedicated circuit for that.
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On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 10:49:30 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Well, in the previous post did include the wire in type too, but it wasn't one where the transformer is part of a panel. I missed that part. One would think that such a product would either have a junction box that's part of it or else be made to mount on a box like a light fixture would. Neither would seem suited to using it for cabinet lighting. Which is probably why the ones I've seen have been like the ones I described.

We really need a pic of the actual unit to see what it actually is.
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On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 07:49:23 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

I know he said that. It still sounds like regular wires to me.
[time goes by]
But he's posted picture links and counting the whole thread I've got one loss and two wins. He doesn't want to use a plug. But I was right about what the wires look like. Even though he has 4 empty receptacles (probably because the kitchen isn't in use yet). And I was right that he plans for the wire to come straight out of the wall!! Plus I don't know how he intends to run the 2-conductor wire into the junction box. It's a lot smaller than Romex and the standard cover will leave a much bigger opening than with Romex. Plus if this is permitted at all (????) he needs some sort of grommet to go into the box. Are there any grommets small enough for this wire that are acceptable for 110 volts? Maybe it came with a smaller than average wachamacallit, that goes into the hole in the box and tightens down so that sparks can't get out.
His drawing either shows no junction box, or it shows the connections made outside of the box!!!
I have my own home-made under-the-counter light, installed at least 25 years ago. Two sockets using those 110V hotdog-shaped light bulbs (like are used for bed-lamps) and a separate switch (none of which is visible, just behind the cabinet skirt), and a two-conductor wire (lamp cord). I put a plug on the cord and plugged it in. I used insulated staples or 2-sided tape or something to keep the wire up under the cabinet.

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On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 5:31:07 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

Last time I checked, Romex doesn't go through the receptacle cover or typically any cover at all.

Most houses today are using plastic boxes that have plastic tabs that squeeze against the cable. While it's intended for Romex, I certainly could live with the round cable going through it. As for tightening up so sparks can't get out, typical box isn't made to be spark tight to begin with.

He's clearly intending to make the connection inside the existing receptacle box. Good grief. Conductor fill might be a legitimate issue though, depending on what's in there already.
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On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 14:57:31 -0800 (PST), trader_4

The thing that covers the hole. I don't know what it's called.

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On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 6:30:39 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

Manhole cover?
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On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:36:08 -0800 (PST), trader_4

That's it.
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On 2/24/2016 8:38 PM, Micky wrote:

Adhesive bandage.
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On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 5:31:07 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:

Really? The receptacles are empty "probably" because the kitchen isn't in use yet?
The 2 duplex receptacles next my sink are only used for small electrics like hand mixers, the crock pot, the coffee grinder, etc. Things that are plugged in, used and then put away. The vast majority of the time they are empty. The unfinished counter tells us the kitchen is not in use yet, but empty receptacles tell us nothing other than that they are empty.
As for your "win" related to the cord. Your *assumption* was correct, while I chose not to make an assumption and to withhold a suggested method until we had the details. If your correct guess makes you feel victorious, enjoy the feeling.

And that is acceptable to you? In what world?
That is what I have been trying to get across to you all along. If this is to be done to code, he is going to need a junction box to accept the cord from the LED fixture. He will then need to run wire that is rated for in wall use to that junction box from a source. I could be wrong, but I'll wager that the cord from the led fixture is not rated for in wall use. Even if it is, it can't just be run through a hole in the wall.

What 2 conductor wire?
Good Grief! Pay attention. The picture shows 3 wires. Hot, Neutral and Ground. In addition he said:
"The 3 wires coming out of the LED panel would get connected (spliced?) onto corresponding existing wires inside the wall."
Even if you have trouble reading, he included a picture.

Sparks? Do you think that the purpose of Romex connectors is to contain sparks? Wow!
If that isn't a reason for me to slowly back away from this conversation I don't know what it is.
Moving on...

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On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 16:45:38 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

We're really going to quibble about "probably". Below you're proud that you don't make assumptions. So isn't it better to make a qualified assumption (probably) than an unqualified one?

Sink? There's no sink in the picture.

Not everyone works that way.

Who said that was the reason I thought it's not used yet? The reasons are that the counter has nothing on it, the paint colors don't match, and the edge of the paint is not straight. But that's not total proof so I said probably. See?

MMMmmmMMMmmm. Oh, that's good.

Where did I say it was acceptable? Four lines down I said " Plus if this is permitted at all (????)...."

That's what I said in an earlier post.

The white wire with the black and green wires inside it.

I see 2 wires and 2 shadows. He might have been wrong when he said there was a ground.

Look at it.

The purpose of junction boxes is to contain sparks and fire.

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On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 9:04:17 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote: ...snip...

Look, I'm only responding to help you out. Maybe it's because I feel sorry for you.
I don't know what kind of monitor you have or what kind of device you are viewing those pictures with, but for some reason you are aren't seeing the neutral (white) wire. It comes out of the casing, goes behind the ground (green) wire, runs along the hot (black) wire and then goes behind the hot wire. Notice how there are *2* stripped ends right next to each other where the hot and neutral end.
http://imgur.com/HXs2qpZ

He never said anything about a ground being there or not. All he said was "The 3 wires coming out of the LED panel..." and he was 100% correct. Tis you that are wrong.
Pop quiz:
Let's say the device only had 2 wires, a hot and a neutral. What color would expect those to wires to be?
...snip...
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