Indiana State Fair stage collapse

Sort of off topic since it's not an issue for home repair, but sort of on topic since it has to do with construction.

I'm sure you've seen the collapse on tv, and its all over the internet especially on youtube.

From looking at that stage, it looked way too tall, and much too top heavy. I dont understand why they make them so tall to begin with, then they hang tons of lighting and huge heavy speakers from them. It would be like building a house by making the walls by using a few 2x4s in the four corners, then building a huge and very heavy roof on top. Then add a few tons of equipment on top of that.

To me, that whole stage looks like it was build wrong. Those tall scaffolding towers look flimsy compared to the weight on top.

Does it look this way to you too?

Aside from what appears to be a poorly built structure, I have to question why two musicians need all of that staging. What ever happened to simply enjoying the music. Granted for an audience of

12,000, they need some amplification, and of course some lights are needed, but if you download a video and play it in slow mode, you can see that the entire "ceiling" was covered with lighting, and there were huge speakers hung from the scaffolding.

It seems to me that the amount of equipment used to put on a musical act these days is rediculous. All they really needed was a 12x20 foot stage with a simple tarp over it, and speakers stacked on the platform, with two light towers. I go to lots of shows at county fairs and that is all they have. Yet the shows are fun. Not only are these huges stages dangerous, but we could see these shows for much less money if they cut out all that huge staging.

It's a real shame that people had to die because of our "bigger is better" attitude which seems to be the case with all musical types these days.

Another thing is the sound equipment. I went to a local event and saw a very good local band. They had so much electronics I could not understand the point. Four 14 channel mixer boards for a four member band..... They had 3 computers connected to all of this, and over 40 speakers. This was for a crowd of about 1000 people. I thought the sound quality was bad, muddy, and much too loud. Two weeks later I saw this same band again. This time they had an average sound system with one mixer board, and a few speakers. They sounded 100 times better.

We live in a world of bloat, and particularly when it comes to electronics. Now we pay the price.

While the deaths are bad enough, it could have been much worse if all that electrical equipment had shorted out and electrocuted everyone touching that scaffolding.

Reply to
jw
Loading thread data ...

Music is no longer a simple delight. Now we have to have all sorts of lighting and special effects to justify the incredible ticket prices. Modern Marvels had a show about American Trucking. They show a country singer that moves 9 trailers of equipment for each show. These guys may have been similar in that respect. Crazy. The music should be the showcase.

I'd not speculate on the construction. I don't know how high the wind gust was. It should have been engineered to take a minimum of 75 mph because that can happen in a thunderstorm. 50 to 65 is rather frequent.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

The towers look plenty strong for the compression and probably bending loads, but the bases not adequate for torque loads. It should have had diagonal cable bracing added after raising.

Reply to
Pete C.

Our newspaper this morning said that two National Weather Service employees who were attending the concert as fans estimated the gust at ~70 mph.

-- Doug in Indianapolis

Reply to
Doug Miller

Most of the so-called music these days is nothing but sheer noise.

Harry K

Reply to
Harry K

Correct. I'd take James Taylor, Chris Smither or someone like that with just one person playing guitar and singing, over any of these "stars" country or rock-n-roll these days. It's mostly all crap music and showmanship.

-C-

Reply to
Country

Hardly new, though. KISS traveled REALLY heavy back in the day. The Stones had a tour in the late 70s that took up 15 trucks.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

Have you ever seen the Sugarland show? They use a lot of special effects. That looks like the same stage they set up here in Ft Myers a couple years ago. It is fairly standard stuff for a live show. I bet they will be using more Guy wires next time. They seemed to have it tied down pretty well here, Maybe 75-80 MPH winds were not expected in Indiana. That is a regular "no name" summer storm here.

Reply to
gfretwell

Hardly new, and hardly a detraction. With today's high quality music recording and many live produced albums, there is not much real reason to go see a live show unless there is substantial additional showmanship.

Reply to
Pete C.

Yeah, there were awnings on food stands a few hundred feet away that survived intact. One of the TV weather guys described it as sort of a horizontal microburst. WHile that probably made the NWS people cringe, that did sorta make sense as an explanation.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

True. One of the best sounding live albums I have heard in the last few years was from Scott Kirby, a good but not exactly well known singer on a backwater label. If HE can do it, anybody can. '

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

The problem with this was it was up in the unobstructed wind. Down at ground level the wind was not going to going as fast because there was a lot to block it.

Reply to
gfretwell

Yep, the carnival remained intact on the other end of the grounds, as did other parts of the fair. Obviously there were other tents, as there are at all fairs. (You can see the ferris wheel/carnival to the left in the videos). The news reports said the winds were 60 to

70mph, (depending on which station reported it). That's serious wind, but why did only this stage collapse? As soon as that roof tarp came loose, it began to fall. Seems like that tarp acted as a sail and just pulled it down. But once again, the weight on top was too heavy.

If this had been a "normal size" stage with a tarp on top, the tarp would have come down, causing little or no human injury. No one would have died if a few boards came down or a stage light tower fell over. I can not even guess how much weight was hanging on that frame. The news said "tons", and I speculate that means tons as a 3 digit figure.

After all, the whole purpose of the "roof" on those stages is to protect the performers from rain and weather. The problem is they use those structures to hang all the lighting and gear. It would be a lot less harmful if the performers got an unwanted "bath" in a rainstorm.

I can recall when a local county fair who uses a flatbed truck for a stage, has a wooden frame with a tarp overhead. Some years back, that tarp came off during a storm, before the show. The frame stayed intact. The show went on without a roof, and everything was fine. There was a light rain during the show, the performers and audience made the best of it, the sound guys tossed tarps over the speakers and electronic gear, and the show went on. Everyone had fun.

Reply to
jw

Note the smaller tents on both ends of that stage. They were fine, until the stage crushed the one on the right. Those tents are simple canvasses with a few poles. Normally those are the first to go.

Reply to
jw

I think Pink Floyd exceeded that back in their day. They were an exception. These days it seems that this is the norm for all bands.

Reply to
jw

Don't know what, for this discussion constitutes "unobstructed". The stage is in the middle of the infield for the race track. Once it entered the fairgrounds, there wasn't anything there to block it.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

I have not seen their shows, in fact I was wondering what that large circle is on the center. I may have to look on youtube and see if there are any videos of their shows. I've only heard some of their music. I think they needs a lot more guy wires and other bracing. Better yet, a smaller stage without all that stuff hanging on the top.

Reply to
jw

The one that got crushed was obviously protected (at least from the wind) by stage, etc. You have a point about the other one.

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

Whoever said that clearly isn't familiar either with the stage rigging, or the nearby structures. Use GoogleEarth to grab yourself a satellite view of the Indiana State Fairgrounds and you'll see what I mean.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Talked about in alt.audio.pro.live-sound

Looked flimsy to me.

Greg

Reply to
gregz

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.