in wall timer wiring

The timer I wired in (successfully I might add) says in the sales sheet it doesn't require a neutral wire. What is the advantage of this? Still trying to learn wiring :(

Reply to
Doug
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It probably doesn't need a neutral wire because it is just a switch. The only difference between it and a regular switch is that it has a little wind up clock motor in it to turn the switch off after the time you set.

If it is an electronic time switch it probably has a battery in it that will run the timer. The problem with this set up is that you have to replace the battery every once in a while. I had one and it had to be turned off between uses or it ran the battery down very quickly. This kind of defeated its purpose, since you couldn't just start the timer and walk off and forget it until the next time. I took it out and put in one of the mechanical ones.

Bill

Reply to
Bill Gill

Congratulations! Did you get it working with the timer at the light-end (not hot feed end)?

The advantage of not needing a neutral is that there is often not a neutral available at a switch. Because timers that are powered from the line are becoming so common the most recent code requires a neutral at most switches in new wiring. As you probably know, your timer doesn't need a switch because it has a battery.

Reply to
bud--

No Bud, I had to wire it at the hot feed end per instructions. I tried almost a whole day everything I could think of, getting frustrated trying the leg end until I read on a site (not in the instructions by the way) that it had to be wired from the hot feed end. As soon as I switched it to the feed end, it worked. Funny thing is I haven't programmed it yet, just working it in manual mode right now. It is kinda funky tho on a 3 way switch because the timer controls the 3 way circuit (well at least in manual mode) so if you try to control at the other end, it won't work. As long as the timer is turned on, the other switch works fine. To me, that's not a true 3 way circuit but what do I know . I think it really would be better on a single pole switch which is what I plan to do with the other timer I have.

Reply to
Doug

Some timers used the ground wire in place of the neutral. If the current is within the allowed "leakage" current it can (or at least could) pass UL. It is possible that is what Leviton is doing (so it needs to be at the power end). (Doesn't seem likely since there is a battery.) It is one reason the code now generally wants neutrals at switch locations.

I would expect that if the timer is turning the light on maybe both switches wouldn't work. If timer is not turning the light on both switches should work. Does not sound like that is what is happening.

Reply to
bud--

Just to clarify in case I wasn't clear... this timer replaced the hot end switch. The other end (leg end) had to be rewired tho when this timer was wired up. If you didn't see the schematic and want to, I posted it in early message.

Reply to
Doug

Some of these timers use a voltage robbing circuit to power them, which is a pia because they shut down when the bulb that they're controlling blows, and have to be reprogrammed. Strangely, the diagram for the 3 way wiring showed the timer being located at the feed end of the circuit, but when wiring it as a single pole, it doesn't matter which of the two wires you connect to are hot. I haven't installed this particular model, but when I've done other Intermatic models, it hasn't mattered which side the thing went on. (lol) None of them work very well, for very long, anyway.

Reply to
RBM

That doesn't sound good. Gee I hope it lasts a while after all the time it took me to get it right.

Reply to
Doug

Well, from my experience with Intermatic electronic timers, most failures occur right at the time of installation, at such a high rate that I always carried two on my truck. If you're in an area subject to voltage spikes from lightning, they're toast. Other than spikes and DOA's , I've seen them last for many years and work just fine. One caveat, they don't work well on 3 way systems where the switches are pretty far apart, like front door and garage. These days, unless the customer specifically requests and electronic in wall time switch, I use the Tork in wall mechanical timer. They have to be installed in a single gang switch box, by themselves, and they require a neutral, but they are indestructible.

Reply to
RBM

I live in an area that doesn't get too many spikes but I've gotten some over the last 10 years or so. I haven't programed it yet but it works in manual mode so I presume that means not DOA. I guess time will tell. Thanks for the info...

Reply to
Doug

Doesn't sound like it works the way I'd expect either. I'd keep after their tech support and see what they have to say.

Reply to
trader4

I gave up on their support. I even left a support question on their website and never got any reply. Anyway the document I found on line answered the question and since I couldn't get it to work until I followed the document's instructions, satisfies me that it has to be wired at the hot end. Unfortunately in this case, I wish it was otherwise but no choice unless I want to rewire my home for that circuit and I do not wish to do that.

Reply to
Doug

Some times there is no neutral wire. Then it's an advantage.

Reply to
micky

What about a whole house surge-suprpressor. I bought a moderately priced one but havent' had time to install it yet.

Reply to
micky

Whole house surge supressors are fine for more durable electrical devices, depending upon the make and model of course, however unless you're spending a boat load of money on it, it won't do squat for sensitive electronic devices

Reply to
RBM

Okay. I had a boat load of money, but I spent it on the house. A rowboat, at least.

Reply to
micky

They should protect electronics that only connects to power. A lot of sensitive electronics also has phone or cable connections. In that case they may or may not completely protect (they don't limit the voltage between power and signal wires). They should be listed under UL1449.

Reply to
bud--

This is certainly one area I know little about. Every time I go through this exercise, I come up pretty much empty handed. My suppliers explain it to me like this: Lightning and voltage spike devices are rated by " clamping time", which is how fast they can shunt the spike, and by "joules", which is the size of a spike that they can handle. I can buy one for $5, and I can buy one for $20,000. I have always passed on the $20K. When the customer really insists on something, I use a $50 unit that wires into the service panel. Problem is, I have no way to determine if it's actually protecting anything. From my experience, the most sensitive things, the ones that seem first to blow out during an electrical storm are telephone answering machines, which of course have the phone line as well as power, garage door operators, and GFCI outlets

Reply to
RBM

I know what you mean. That's why besides the specs and claims, I would not use one from an unknown manufacturer. I recently installed an Intermatic IG1240RC, about $100, for a friend. I believe that properly installed they do offer sufficient protection on the incoming AC power. For devices like TV, phone, etc that are connected to other lines, whole house protection plus plug-in surge protectors that clamp the other lines to the AC is the best we can do.

Reply to
trader4

About everything has MOVs as the voltage clamping element. MOVs are fast enough ("clamping time") for any surge.

The maximum surge with any reasonable probability of occurring is

10,000A per service wire. (That is based on a 100,000A lightning strike to the nearest utility pole in typical urban overhead distribution.) Higher ratings mean longer life. A guide from the IEEE suggests 20,000 - 70,000A per wire for residential, or 40,000 - 120,000A in high lightning areas.

For best protection the entry protectors for phone and cable should connect with a _short_ ground wire to the building earthing system. The distance from the N-G service bond to the common connection point should also be short. The longer the ground wire the higher the voltage between power and signal wires. For phones, 10 feet is about the maximum. Also short wire for dish, but probably not as critical.

GFCIs probably all have MOVs L-N. The UL standard maybe 5 years ago required better surge protection.

I agree on using major-brand devices.

And I agree that when using a plug-in protector, all wires (power, phone, cable, dish, ...) to a set of protected equipment need to go through the protector.

Reply to
bud--

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