In line water shut off valve

Page 1 of 2  
Can these valves be repaired rather than only replaced. In line shut off valve in basement does not fully stop water to outside spigot. The valve is not leaking indoors. Valve has been cycled several times and the packing nut snugged tight.
FWIW this is a 50+ year old installed valve.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That would seem to depend on the particular valve, what type it is, etc. The mention of packing, would suggest that it's a gate type valve with washer. Could be as simple as replacing the washer.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Or the seat.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

- - -
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Best solution is to get yourself a ball valve and do a replacement. Generally easier that it looks provided you can do a bit of soldiering. MLD
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

the stem (remove packing nut) which requires turning off the main water. IF it is a washer, just replace it. If it is not a washer see what kind of shutoff it is and post back. The seat can be damaged as well. On some they can be removed with an allen wrench. On some they can be refaced, on others you can get replacement seats. If not repairable, do as the other guys have said and put in a ball valve. If you can't solder (or are not sure you can do a good job) buy a sharkbite ball valve and just slip it in.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/17/2012 08:44 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

standard solder joint, one aspect I haven't found yet is how to properly cut out and remove the old valve so the new pieces will slip in properly.
Namely how do you best compensate for the inch where the pieces will mate without unnecessary tugging on the existing remaining copper pipe? Or am I being too cautious?
One thing I did verify today is I can easily shut off the household water supply at the meter. Plus I have a spigot near the basement steps lower to the ground that will aid in proper draining of the pipe.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I don't trust sharkbites. My prediction is that in a few years, the shark teeth will corrode off, and the valves will leak, come off, etc.
Sometimes you have to sweat in a short length of tubing, and a slip coupler. Or, a water copper union.
Other times you can unsweat the old valve, and put the new one right there.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Whether it be the sharkbite system. which looks intriguing, or a standard solder joint, one aspect I haven't found yet is how to properly cut out and remove the old valve so the new pieces will slip in properly.
Namely how do you best compensate for the inch where the pieces will mate without unnecessary tugging on the existing remaining copper pipe? Or am I being too cautious?
One thing I did verify today is I can easily shut off the household water supply at the meter. Plus I have a spigot near the basement steps lower to the ground that will aid in proper draining of the pipe.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/18/2012 05:58 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

to properly cut out and then fit the replacement parts.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

will see with stop and without stop. You want without stop. These guys are in Chico California but there is no minimum order quantity.
Grainger carries them too. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/copper-fittings/fittings/plumbing/ecatalog/N-bm1Z1z11wtx?Ndrsedimid10071&sst=subset
It is a NIBCO C601 1/2"
Home Despot even lists it - as a NIBCO 1/2 in. Copper Pressure Slip Coupling Model # C601 Store SKU # 746932
Call your local BORG and ask for the part number.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
We can do that.
1. Find someone who can sweat pipes, and ask..... 2. Ask here.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Odds favor I'll be sweating pipe. Now just looking for some hints to properly cut out and then fit the replacement parts.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

If there is enough play in the existing pipes, sometimes you can get away with moving them apart the required distance. If not, you can use a "repair coupling", which is like a regular copper coupling, except it has no ridge in the middle. It can be slid completely over one side of the pipe, then later slid back to the half-way position after the pipes are aligned. Usually doing it on one side of the repair is enough. Doing that, if you can just mover the pipes laterally enough to get it together, you then slide the coupling back before soldering. Worse case you can use two repair couplings, one on each side. Doing that the valve/pipe assembly will go right in even if the existing pipes can't be moved at all.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

If the valve is in the pipe that goes straight to the outside spigot, that may not be a problem. It could be that once you cut the pipe where the existing valve is, you can slide the remainder of the pipe to the outside spigot in and out. That section of pipe will be moveable. You'll just have to cut it to the right length to slide it back into the new in-line valve that you install.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Jim:
A few points:
1. You're right. It can be impossible to tell if a small valve has a washer and seat or a gate unless and until you take it apart. Sometimes it's apparant, but not always.
2. You should be aware that you may not even need to cut your pipe. If your existing valve is soldered into place, most plumbers would simply:
a) drain the line of water and ensure the valve and outdoor spigot are open,
b) heat up the valve with their torch on the upstream side of the valve and slide the piping outward. Wipe the molten solder off the end of the pipe with a dry rag.
c) then heat up the valve on the downstream side and knock it off the pipe (if there isn't a finished floor that would get burned by the hot valve) and wipe the molten solder off the end of that pipe too.
Now, as long as the tinned ends of the pipes will fit into the valves, you can just treat those soldered ends as the new surface of the pipe. Sand it to remove any lead or tin oxide on the solder's surface, and flux that tinned end just like it was your copper pipe. Brush out the sockets on the new valve and flux them too. Assemble everything and solder it together. Ensure both the valve and the outdoor spigot are open when soldering. It's capillary pressure that sucks the solder into the joint, and if your piping is closed and the air expands as it's heated, that can be enough to overcome the capillary pressure and prevent solder from flowing into the joint.
To be clear: You don't need to completely remove the old solder from the pipe. As long as the pipe end will fit inside the valve, you're OK. Just treat the surface of the old solder the same way you would a piece of copper pipe.
Ditto if you wanted to re-use that old valve. You wouldn't have to remove all the old solder out of the sockets; just enough so that the new pipe would fit into the valve.
(If it's a gate or globe valve, it's best to take the stem out of the valve before soldering to protect the rubber washer and packing material from the heat. If by chance you muck up the little fiber gasket that goes between the stem and valve body, you can buy something that will work better at any place in your area that sells O-rings to the pneumatics and hydraulics companies. Ask that place for a "teflon back-up ring" the same size as the fiber gasket. Teflon back-up rings come in all the same sizes as O-rings do and are quite expensive, costing between $1.50 to $5.00 each, depending on size.
[image:
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/201/925/399/399925201_900.jpg ]
They do, however, work perfectly as replacements for fiber gaskets.)
3. If you cut the pipe, you'll have to use a slip coupling and a little bit of extra pipe to replace the length of copper pipe you cut out. Where I live, it's difficult to get slip couplings because most stores only stock "dimpled couplings" like this one:
[image:
http://www.gd-wholesale.com/userimg/41/2297i1/equal-coupling-with-dimpled-tube-stop-728.jpg ]
There's lots of bad advice out there, and something you might hear is to convert a dimpled coupling into a slip coupling by FILING off the dimple on the ID of the dimpled coupling, and this is terrible advice. Often those couplings are dimpled so deeply that you can have a zero or near-zero wall thickness at the dimple if you file it off on the inside. If you can't get a slip coupling, then use a 1/4 inch drive deep socket (or small 3/8" drive socket) as an anvil and pound the dimple out of the coupling with a hammer. That way, you're not reducing the wall thickness of the coupling at the dimple. And, if someone tells you to file out that dimple, tell them to tell people to pound it out with a hammer instead so this bit of bad advice is finally killed.
Hope this helps.
--
nestork


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Some can, some cannot. Depends on what is wrong too.
Either way, you have to shut the water off to do the repair. It is probably more sensible to replace the valve and be good for another 50 years rather than repair and have a problem in a week or a couple of years. You just don't know.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

crapshoot. This one has had 50 years of "experience".
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/17/2012 04:50 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

close inspection taking measurements to create my parts list. At that time I looked at surrounding valves to get hints on how I'd best place the new valve.
It was then I first took notice of severe corrosion on the valves leading to the second floor bathroom, the primary one for this house. These valves being very close to the main foundation support beam.
Decided then and there to call in the experts. In all I had five valves changed out and a new drain created. Took the pro two hours overall with majority of the time on those bathroom lines. A main line valve that didn't fully close and feed lines that didn't fully drain became complications I'm certain would have been a challenge for me the rookie.
Money well spent. Watched closely, lessons learned. Still have a few non-critical valves I can learn on sometime in the future.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That was easy.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Is it a gate valve, ball valve, globe valve, angle valve, or.....
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Can these valves be repaired rather than only replaced. In line shut off valve in basement does not fully stop water to outside spigot. The valve is not leaking indoors. Valve has been cycled several times and the packing nut snugged tight.
FWIW this is a 50+ year old installed valve.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 12/17/2012 05:59 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.