Important COSTLY Info about that new water heater

[Bubba]

First off, let me say: I am NOT selling anything. This is purely informational. You may use it as you wish. Do you know what your Government has done to new gas water heaters? Maybe everyone already knows this but I've finally had a new one apart and inspected it close up. Do you know that when you replace your gas water heater you will most assuredly receive one of the new "combustion shut-off system" type water heaters? The heater gets its combustion air from the bottom of the heater. When the air comes up from the bottom of the heater it goes through a 4" hole in the bottom. This hole has a spring loaded damper held in place by a 500 degree "capsule". When the "capsule" melts, the damper slams shut and the burner can no longer get combustion air and WILL NOT STAY LIT! The worst of this is that when this damper shuts, the water heater MUST BE REPLACED!! There are NO REPLACEMENT PARTS to fix this! Now keep in mind....500 degrees in the burner area is not much. If your flue pipe clogs or you get a slightly prolonged downdraft or you lose fresh air to the burner, this damper will slam shut! It can happen very easily. So if a little birdie falls down your chimney because he sat up top to keep warm during a cold winter day, you WILL be replacing your water heater! I just want everyone to know, I am all for safety and this device is exactly for that BUT I think this design could be done differently to keep from replacing a perfectly good water heater. This device can be circumvented but I would NEVER tell anyone how to do it as it would defeat an important safety issue. It is also impossible to defeat once the water heater is in place. It has to be disconnected and drained to do it. Again, I'm not advising anyone to defeat this safety device. I'm only trying to let everyone know that this is going to cost a lot of people a lot of money to have their water heater replaced every time a poor venting condition occurs. I don't know how to get different regulations in place or how to get new water heaters designed differently but something needs to be done. If you have any questions my email is valid. Just remove the "ReMoVe" in my address. Note: I will NOT tell anyone how to defeat the safety device. You will have to deal with that on your own. IMPORTANT: Use this information at your own risk and as you chose. It may have errors in it so it's completely up to you how you use this info. Bubba

[Dan C]

Idiot.

[Bubba]

Humor me. Why? Are you too stupid to understand or are you just stupid? Bubba

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle

Hey Bubba , Send me any data other than this here that you have on this shut down device you speak of.

Send it to this address but leave out the name "Troll Paul" from it. [e-mail]

If what you say is true in my part of the country hell is fixing to break out.

TURTLE

[trader4]

Is this the safety device that was mandated to prevent morons from killing themselves by filling up a basement with volatile fumes from solvents and then having it set off by the water heater? I've heard this was coming for some time now and that it add not only complexity, but considerable cost to new water heaters.

[Joseph Meehan]

...

Assuming all that is correct, I would think that would be a cheap price to pay for protection.

The number of times this will happen I would expect to be a small percentage of total sales so the number of lives saved may be small, but in my opinion it would be worth it.

[trader4]

"The number of times this will happen I would expect to be a small percentage of total sales so the number of lives saved may be small, but in my opinion it would be worth it. "

I think in reality if you look at what it will cost, the total amount spent will be huge compared to the potential lives saved. I recall seeing this driving up the cost of water heaters by more than $100. That likely comes to more than $100mil a year. And it will save exactly how many lives? I can't recall seeing a news report here in the NYC area of anyone getting killed by this type of stupidity. I'm sure it happens, but I don;t think it's that often.

That money could be spent on a whole lot of other things that would save a lot more lives, like preventitive health care for the poor or giving away free smoke/CO detectors. IMO, this is another example of do gooders out of control.

[Pop]

No, a kaner and a troll. Inhuman.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Maybe. I'd like to see some numbers though. While you can't put a price on a life, there may be better, more cost effective methods. Adding $100 per unit is a tidy sum every year, especially if there are false trips.

[Robertm]

Meanwhile, 50,000 people per year die on the highways and they don't enforce the rules of the road. Speeding, tailgaiting, aggressive, terroristic driving. I suppose we must begin with the small things. First the water heaters, tomorrow world peace.

Bob

[Robertm]

Meanwhile, 50,000 people per year die on the highways and they don't enforce the rules of the road. Speeding, tailgaiting, aggressive, terroristic driving. I suppose we must begin with the small things. First the water heaters, tomorrow world peace.

Bob

[thrugoodmarshall]

What you're talking about is FVIR.

I've seen no nefarious plot to rob you of your hard-earned nickels; this is simply yet another safety device from your friendly CPSC.

Don't expect replacement parts to be available before there's a market for them. This is new feature.

"Rheem eliminates the possibility of an extended flammable vapor burn in the water heater by using an exclusive air-shutoff device. Company officials are hoping for widespread consumer acceptance."

If you want to find out about this stuff; google FVIR, or contact the mfr.

To contact Rheem Manufacturing Inc., call [phone] or visit

To contact the American National Standards Institute, call [phone] or visit To contact the Consumer Products Safety Commission, call [phone] or visit To contact CSA International, call [phone] or visit To contact the Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association, call [phone] or visit

[Goedjn]

Oh, for god's sake. Just cut a slug of bismuth, and shove it in there. it's not freaking rocket science.

(Note, if that's the actual design, it's a stupid way to build a safety device. It ought to shut off the gas, not the combustion air.)

[nospam]

Hey Bubba, Go crawl back to alt.hvac with the rest of your idiot friends. Tell PDA Paul we said hi.

[m Ransley]

OMG what should I do now, the sky is falling again. Oh I forgot I have tankless Ng.

[Bubba]

Just an update It seems the problem with the damper in the water heaters is not the same in all makes. I was speaking of the Rheem/Ruud units. It was pointed out to me that AO Smith heaters have a fuel and air shut off that is completely resetable, requiring no parts or intervention. Its called "C3 technology". Im guessing the other water heater manufacturers have even different technology? Point being, If you just had a new Rheem/Ruud water heater replaced for $700 to $800 and 2 months later you had to have it replaced again at your expense for that same amount because your flue clogged and the damper shut.............wouldnt you be happier with an AO Smith (or comparable heater) that needed only a flue inspection/cleaning? And it still saves lives over and over. Replacing a water heater only because it sensed an improper condition without being able to reset safely is asbolute udder bullshit!! Checkout the water heater that you get. There is a difference! Bubba

[HeyBub]

You CAN put a price on a life and it's done every day in courtrooms throughout the land.

[Robertm]

An attorney told me that in a court of law, a young person's life is worth more than an old person's life. A 3 year old child killed in a car wreck is worth big money, but if the victim is 90 you won't find an attorney who will sue for damages. Also depends on the victim's status in life, race, etc. You've heard that some people aren't worth crap. Unfortunately, it's true.

Bob

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

No you missed this one !

TURTLE

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

I will have to keep my eyes open from now on.

TURTLE