Ideas for improving this second-generation home composting method

[Danny D]

My first composting method was a disaster but this second generation improved method seems to be working well enough to tell you what it is and to ask about suggestions for improvement.

1. A closeable container sits in the kitchen corner
2. Foodstuffs go into the container instead of in the trash
3. After about a week, we dump the food onto a fenced-in area
4. We chop the food into the soil for about a minute or so
5. This breaks large chunks into small pieces for faster breakdown
6. And it thoroughly 'infects' the foodstuff with soil bacteria
7. After a minute of chopping, the food is barely noticeable
8. Then we shovel a thin layer of soil on top to keep away birds
9. The fence & soil, we found, keeps cyotes & vultures away
10. We spray with water, often daily, to aid bacterial growth
11. We wash the plastic (and sometimes disinfect with chlorine)
12. And the cycle starts anew, with foodstuffs in the kitchen

We've found that we can't even find the food after just a few weeks, although before we fenced it in, the cyotes, vultures, or whatever would dig up the chicken bones, fish skins, etc.

Any ideas or suggestions or comments are welcome.

[harry]

You are a long way behind on the curve. You can start here.

[Danny D]

Reading that, I seem to be missing the mixing in a barrel. Also I seem to not be aiming for that 30:1 carbon:nitrogen mix. None of the composting ideas in that article appeared to be simply placed in the ground. I wonder why?

[nestork]

I'm certainly no expert on composting, but it seems to me that the soil in Manhattan before the white man came was fertile because the bacteria in the ground digested dead grasses, fallen leaves, and the occasional dead tree. That is, the things that normally grew in that area died and decomposed, thereby providing nutrients in the soil for new growth. And, it was the bacteria and tiny fungii in that soil that did the decomposing. Undoubtedly, it's the same types of bacteria and fungii in that soil today.

I can't help thinking that giving those bacteria and fungii egg shells, fish skins and orange peels to digest is like feeding pizza and beer to a bird. You would undoubtedly have better success with the bacteria in your soil by composting grass clippings, leaves and similar vegetable matter from your kitchen table; like corn cobs for example.

I know that in some of the landfill sites in the world, they use pigs and goats to eliminate the rotting food in the garbage that's discarded. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to feed what you're discarding to a pig or goat and let the bacteria inside it's stomach do the composting for you. Then, it's just a matter of collecting what comes out the other end to use as a fertilizer for your soil.

Depending on where you live, there may be some laws concerning keeping farm animals like this in your yard.

[Moe DeLoughan]

Space and ease of use, most probably. Most ground is already put to use so there's no free space to incorporate garden/kitchen waste. Also, adding it to a heap or barrel is less effort than digging it into the ground, and makes it less available for scavengers.

When I was a kid, our weekly kitchen waste removal chore involved digging a deepish hole in an open spot in the vegetable garden. Every evening the day's kitchen scraps got dumped in, followed by a shovelful of soil. At the end of the week the hole was filled in and a new hole started. But in those days gardening wasn't as space-intensive as it is nowadays. You'd be hard pressed to find much open space in most contemporary gardens.

[Danny D]

Interesting way to say it.

I did read not to put chicken, pork, beef, shells, etc. in the compost, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why.

I understand your analogy - but I wonder if it applies. I mean, what are eggshells anyway? They're just calcium carbonate, right? Must dissolve in the soil, right?

And, what are fish skins? They're just scales (keratin?) and slippery fat. Why wouldn't bacteria love eating that stuff?

Same with orange peels. They fall on the ground all the time from a wild orange tree, right? They must go somewhere or they would just pile up until they covered the tree (since they don't blow away in the wind).

In summary, I have heard these admonitions - but I've never seen a decent believable explanation of why it would be bad for compost.

[Alfred Fox]

Makes sense. Luckily I have plenty of space.

I was adding it to a square 18" high recycling bin prior - but that bin was too heavy to move after it got full of soil + compost.

Now, I just chop it into the ground; cover with soil; and water it, and it seems to work (although I have to keep animals away as I had found all the bones were dug up if I didn't).

Long term, I'll see how well it works over a year's span. I do realize I'm "breaking the rules" by adding everything (fish, chicken, beef, pork, bacon fat, eggshells, orange peels, banana peels, lettuce cores, avocado pits, stale bread and crackers, etc.) from the kitchen.

I never saw a good explanation of why not.

[Norminn]

"Attracting rodents" is reason #1, #2 and #3! Not to mention digging into a pocket of rotten meat if one turns the pile. Link here:

Someone who likes breeding worms explains how to (carefully) incorporate meat to a compost:

I just set up my new compost pile this morning...new home, doing lots of landscaping and planting veg. garden....I just melted some holes in a black plastic tub to keep out by the garden and koi pond. Can dump in kitchen stuff and algae from the pond if the koi don't eat it :o)

[Fat-Dumb and Happy]

one word... pathogens, some say the reason for the human population explosion is due more to sanitation than anything else.. but that's like saying what was the most important factor in winning a war. keep googling, energy cycle, nitrogen cycle, food chain, food cycle.. when you get all done, dig a hole and bury it and run the kitchen water out in the yard. There is a reason the grass is greener over the lateral lines of a septic tank system. a starter,...

[Dan Espen]

Do some Google searches. Putting meat into compost isn't really a good idea. Use Google to understand the issues. I think you're asking for trouble.

[Danny D]

Googling, all I can find is that it's a "pest magnet", which is no big deal since I live in the mountains anyway and since it's fenced in.

Before I fenced it in, something (probably a coyote) dug up the ham bones, but nothing has been digging there other than the vultures and other birds since I fenced it in.

Seems to me pests are no big deal; they're part of nature, which is what composting is all about.

BTW, while googling for why meats are deprecated, I found this article:

Which insists the 'secret' is the aeration which can come about if I build air spaces into the pile by heaping straw or other course material.

So that's one improvement on my technique that I will attempt as I won't be physically 'turning' the compost anytime soon ...

[Danny D]

Looks like folks who actually did it (like I am doing it), have found no problems with substances on the "banned" list, according to this article:

VERBATIM: I get a bit perturbed when I see compost educators telling their students that there is a long list of things "NOT to be composted!" This prohibition is always presented in such an authoritative and serious manner that novice composters begin trembling in their boots at the thought of composting any of the banned materials. ... Those banned materials include meat, fish, dairy products, butter, bones, cheese, lard, mayonnaise, milk, oils, peanut butter, salad dressing, sour cream, weeds with seeds, diseased plants, citrus peels, rhubarb leaves, crab grass, pet manures, and, perhaps worst of all: human manure....Luckily, I was never exposed to such instructions, and my family has composted EVERY bit of food scrap it has produced, including meat, bones, butter, oils, fat, lard, citrus peels, mayonnaise, and everything else on the list; we've done this in our backyard for almost 25 years with never a problem.

[Danny D]

Actually, there are three supposed problems with composting cooked meat:

1. It reputedly attracts pests
2. It purportedly stinks
3. It supposedly changes the chemical balance

Reading on, I find all compost attracts pests and mine certainly doesn't stink, and ground up bones and blood is often used in commercial fertilizer, so, all three reputed reasons can be argued either way.

For me, I'll continue to compost everything from the kitchen, until, and unless a real problem actually arises from doing so ...

[bob haller]

First the background. our town encourages everyone to compost:)

Last year the neighborhood had a rat problem:(

I was contacted by allegheny county because I have a compost pile. I was ordered to remove it.

Now my compost pile is strictly 100% yard waste only!!!

grass, twigs branches leaves etc etc.....

I got very upset and refered the county gal who was nice, to our community and asked WHY one encourages composting while the other orders they be removed?

the pest management guy at allegheny county was abusive and obnixious. I suggested to the county gal her boss should watch his attitude, lest the media get involved. How that jerk treated me would get him fired.....

I locked out my caller ID and left a message for the jerk, Your treatment of people who call you looking for help is terrible, and abusive. the media has been informed you are being monitored. You have a good job dont get fired!!

[Dan Espen]

You should have found mention of anaerobic bacteria and bad smells.

If you really think you need to compost meat, you should be burying deeper. You may not have pests yet, but rats are going to be attracted and digging a foot down should be no problem for a rat.

For above ground compost, I throw leaves and other plant waste on the pile, wait a year, then sift the result. Sometimes I wait 2 years.

A far cry from your daily watering routine. I can't imagine spending that kind of time on compost. I admire your energy but don't see the point.

[nestork]

Danny:

Here's an easy way to turn and aerate your compost:

[image:

Whomever made that appears to have just drilled holes in the side of the barrel and cut between those holes on three sides to make a crude "door".

If I was doing it, I would have drilled smaller holes, marked between the holes by snapping short chaulk lines, and then before making any cuts with a jig saw, I would have marked and drilled holes for mounting a hinge and hasp.

I'd drill the hinge and hasp holes and cut the lines between the corners. Then I'd mount the hinge and hasp with stainless steel rivens and stainless steel flat washers.

That way, you could pad lock the hasp closed to prevent animals from getting at the rotting meat inside. (But, I expect a grizzly would just consider that a challenge and knock that barrel around all day long trying to get at what's inside, cuz it smells edible.)

[Danny D]

In a later post, I did mention the three reputed issues with meat that I had found by googling:

1. Pests

[Danny D]

I had to laugh when I saw that! It's ugly - but ingenious!

I do live in California, the bear state; but I think the biggest predator we have out here are the mountain lions.

[Dan Espen]

Feed those wild animals and find out what the fuss is.

Coyotes probably not an issue. Rats, are an issue. Feed a family of rats and find out how many you will have in 2 years.

[croy]

I once had a pint or so of spoiled milk, and dumped it on my compost pile.

Two days later, a neighbor called to tell me that something aparently had died in my yard, and was stinking up the place. When I got within a few yards of the pile, I got the intense urge to vomit. I got a fork and broke open the pile, and there was a lump, about the size of a beach-ball, that was highly animated with the squirming of thousands of maggots. The smell was, well, the smell of death. Even after spreading it all out to dry, it took more than a week for the smell to dissipate.

I don't put milk in my compost pile anymore.