I want outlets like this.

[Evan]

s.com...

Agreed, OCD at the very least...

You might worry about such people who MUST align their electrical cover plate screws going postal in the workplace one day... :O

~~ Evan

[RicodJour]

You seem to be reading selectively. Please go back and reread the thread and see if you can find the part where you made the assumption that someone said that neatness was a GUARANTEE of quality. Actually, I'll save you the time - nobody said that. What was said by more than a few people is that neatness counts. Where's your beef with that?

Do you shower and shave every day, or are you a scruffy guy? If you're a scruffy guy, and it's a Friday night and the missus wants to go out, do you shave and shower or insist on being scruffy? If you're the type that insists on being scruffy, well, there's no point in carrying this conversation any further, is there? If not, ask your missus whether she likes you cleaned up or scruffy.

See, there's the other point. When you do work not everybody notices everything, but somebody will notice. Many times it's the wife who has a sharper eye than the husband. But you know who I get the most compliments from about my work? Other contractors. Many times it's the homeowner telling me what a contractor said to them about my work. The guy will come into their house for whatever reason - friend, relative, doing work, whatever - and they'll say, "That guy does nice work." Perhaps you don't care, but I kind of get the warm fuzzies when I hear that. But I don't do the little things for other people - I do them for me.

When you see a welded aluminum frame and the welds are all neat little stacks of nickels running around curved tubes, what do you think? Do you think that the guy was a newbie and doesn't care about his work, or do you think, nice welds, looks good, guy knew what he was doing? More to the point - what do your welds look like? Post some pictures I want to see them. Seriously. If they look like shit I'll figure that you simply don't care about such things. If they're nice clean welds (which is probably a safe assumption as you're obviously proud of being in a family of welders), then it's simply a matter of you not realizing that there are some people that are concerned about how ALL of their work looks. Even the trivial stuff.

No, Usenet is the most ridiculous waste of time. We all know that, it just happens to be fun.

R

[Ashton Crusher]

Those were my arguments to my wife. Our rolls dispense off the top....

[Ashton Crusher]

When I put those screws in my concern is getting them to the right tightness to properly snug down the plate and make everything in the right plane. Making all the slots line up would sometimes defeat getting things in the right plane so the face of the outlets/switches are just flush with the cover plate. I'm much more concerned with the cover being flush then with the screw slots being aligned. And I think users would be more likely to notice non-flush covers then unaligned screw slots. If you can do both, that's even better.

[The Daring Dufas]

I installed some credit card readers for a big retail chain and all the screws had tamper proof heads. They were not just tamper proof torx, the screws were a proprietary pattern. None of my tamper proof torx heads fit them because the splines were at different odd angles.

TDD

[notbob]

This has been used on custom wheel lug nut for decades. It's a keyed driver. Unless they make a different key for every reader, there's also mulitple tools. Besides, I've seen tire monkeys take of these keyed lug nuts with a regular socket. Jes use an oversized skt, air torque wrench, lean on it, and voila! It's off.

Where there's a will......

nb

[N8N]

A pro wouldn't leave them loose, either. There's enough give in a switch plate to add a little extra rotation on the screw after it's "tight enough" to align the screw heads. Think about it, they're 6-32 screws, so absolute worst case you'd be pulling the switch plate in slightly less than 1/64" to align the screw head. Not an issue at all in practice.

nate

[N8N]

a "Bolt-Out" makes quick work of even the most stubborn locking lugs... unless you have $1000 apiece BBS mags, probably the extra security is not worth the effort. And if you DO have BBSes, you probably have a Porsche or BMW with factory wheel locks that are more secure than your average parts store deal.

nate

[N8N]

...

That's the best explanation I've heard as to *why* vertical in particular.

I just do it that way in case a pro looks at something that I've done, I don't want him to shake his head and say "f'ing amateurs."

I also use spec-grade devices whenever possible and NEVER use a backstab. If I need the extra connection, I use a pigtail and wire nut. If I am using a metal box with Madison straps, I wrap the device with electrical tape before putting it back in the box.

Now one could say that using spec grade stuff and always using the screw terminals etc. is far, far more important than aligning your screw heads. I'd agree. But it's all part of the overall job and when doing it 100% per code and standard practice is easy, why only do

90%?

nate

[Evan]

s.com...

You haven't seen a true tamper proof or security fastener until you get your hands on some Key-Rex fasteners by Bryce Fastener...

The Key-Rex and Key-Lok are unique to the purchaser, and then there are other fastener types which are still restricted but less secure, Penta-Plus is something several steps up from "security torx or security allen screws" with the small pin in the center...

~~ Evan

[RicodJour]

No doubt nice, but saying it's impossible to duplicate is marketing hyperbole, no? If they want to get in badly enough, they can get in. You're just trying to slow them down to the point that the effort, expense , and increased risk of discovery due to being slowed down makes the stuff you're trying to protect a less appealing target than somebody else's stuff.

R

[bud--]

The 2008 NEC greatly extended where AFCI protecti- if wiring is modified, replaced or extended in areas where AFCI protection is required the changed wiring is required to be AFCI protected

- where an old receptacle is replaced, and it is in an area that the code now requires to be AFCI protected, the replacement receptacle has to be AFCI protected

In both cases above the protection can be an AFCI breaker, or an AFCI replacement receptacle, or being downstream from an AFCI receptacle (same idea as downstream from a GFCI receptacle now). Leviton said it was developing an AFCI receptacle 4 years ago. The "changes" book has a picture of a P&S AFCI receptacle. Presumably at least the P&S receptacles exist. Anyone seen a cost? BORG availability?

One of the main arguments for AFCI breakers was to protect the wiring. AFCI receptacles don't provide part of that protection. Perhaps someone will come up with a UL listed hammer to aid in getting the larger AFCI replacement receptacle in the original box.

Another change is that if "tamper-resistant" or "weather-resistant" receptacles are required for new wiring, they are also required for replacement receptacles. Not real surprising.

[The Daring Dufas]

That's them, those are the screws. The store manager keeps the darn screwdriver bit in the office safe. :-)

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

I had a problem with the special bit shattering during an installation and it took them forever to get a replacement bit so I could finish up.

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

Today me and the crew almost finished up running a pair of 12-2 W/GR MC cable circuits 225 feet long, up in the ceiling of a drug store. I insist it be done correctly with butterfly clips securing the cable to the grid tie wires. A lot of jack legs will just lay the MC cable on top of the grid and light fixtures and not secure it to anything. The company we're doing it for has a female project manager who can't understand why we needed an electric sky-lift to run the cable up in the

20 foot ceilings. The last guy didn't need all that and take so much time. He simply hijacked a circuit at the front of the store and never installed a separate dedicated circuit as required in the specs. Yea, he didn't need fire stop compound to seal around the conduit going through the firewall and he didn't have to install Unistrut or junction boxes and install anchors or all that hardware. Why couldn't we just pop it in in a few hours as opposed to a few workdays? :-)

TDD

[Evan]

te:

ups.com...

I used to have a co-worker who had problems with breaking bits and stripping screws on many things... I took away his cordless drill and told him that it should only be used for drilling, not fastening as he clearly couldn't tell when and where the cordless COULD be used in place of a set of screwdrivers... He stopped going through bits and screws so fast...

We used the Key-Rex screws on door hardware so that no one could disassemble the locking hardware on the doors in the facility as there had been a semi-long term issue with a few tenants unscrewing the interior crash bars on some of the exterior doors to unlock them or dog them open... When I left, no door could be tampered with anymore and there were no longer rashes of thefts and burglaries in the complex...

~~ Evan

[The Daring Dufas]

I shattered the bit by hand. I didn't break it when I used my driver/ drill which I also used to drill pilot holes. :-)

TDD

[krw]

OTOH, if it's a Porsche or BMW, why not take the whole damned car?

[Steve Barker]

thanks!

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

Also, scented toilet paper is psychologically harmful. You learn to associate perfume with shit.

As to the direction the toiler paper turns, THIS IS NOT AN ART OBJECT. It is there for a purpose (not just to look at). The most attractive position should be the most useful one. Paper that hangs out in front is easier to reach.