I'm off to buy (another) miter saw

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I've been waiting anxiously for Harbor Freight's sale (Today, Saturday, and Sunday) to pick up their new "Double-Bevel," 12-inch sliding miter saw. This weekend it's only $119.00. (save $510 over comparable Bosch 5312)
The double-bevel deal means that the table rotates 45d left/right AND the saw itself tilts 45d left and right. Look down at the saw, the blade pivots to the left/right; look straight at the saw and the blade rotates 45d clockwise and counter-clockwise.
Oodles of other stuff is on sale: 7-function multimeter for $2.00 is an example or a 1/4 and 3/8 socket set for $4.00. Things to stick in the toolbox for those rare occasions when you run into an unexpected need.
I presume the saw will function as expected. When I get the sucker home, and set up, I'll report back on any surprises (positive or negative).
If you don't hear from me, you may assume a) No surprises, or b) I'm laid up in the hospital.
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Didn't we just go through this? Do you really think that a $119 HF saw is "comparable" to a Bosch 5312?
If we compare no other specs, let's just compare warranties: HF: 90 days, Bosch: 1 year. That has to tell you something about the quality of the tool right there.
Beside, you can get the Bosch for $556.50 on Amazon, with free shipping. That cuts your "savings" to $437, *if* they were comparable.
When you come back to tell us about your new saw, will it be after a side-by-side, feature-by-feature comparison with the Bosch?
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On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 10:51:30 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

Excellent points.
Buy quality and cry once — buy cheap and cry forever.
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On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 13:41:00 -0600, Gordon Shumway

You made an excellent point too... I recall my mom saying my dad (in the business) bought a lot of tools before or about the time I was born when they didn't really have the money and bought the best or near the best tools at the time. Well, as far as I know, he never had to replace them tho he did have to do minor maintenance on them thru the years. Bottom line... buying quality is worth your while. I have some of them now tho I don't use them much and gave some away.
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wrote:

Sometimes buying lower quality allows you to lay out less, test the techniques with that machine, and buy higher quality when you want to. Sort of going from a biscuit joiner to a Domino (g,d,r).
--
Best regards
Han
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If that were the way I worked, I'd *never* buy a Domino. I have a biscuit joiner and hate the thing. OTOH, I haven't bought a Domino, either. Yet. ;-)
No, I'm a long-time member of the pain-once club.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote in wrote:

<snip>

I have a biscuit joiner for sale. So far only nibbles, no takers. As the Festoolers have said, you buy a Domino and that is automagically a 30-day trial (I forget the specifics). There must be a local hardware store near you that sells it ... Then let us know what you do at the end of the trial.
--
Best regards
Han
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I used my biscuit jointer once, too sloppy. It's a PC, so it's one of the better ones but I couldn't align the boards (edge gluing) worth squat.

Sure, there are loads of places that sell them. There's a Woodcraft and a Rocklers (was there today) just on the other side of town, but I much prefer Highland Woodworking as a Festool disty (they have everything in stock). Haven't wanted to pony up the $900, yet, though.
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wrote:

There are plus's and minus's to every strategy. Does a $200 saw really cut 2x4's better then a $30 saw if you are just slapping up framing? My dad worked construction all his life and went thru several iterations of tools. He had to keep in mind the likelihood of it getting stolen, how often it would need fixing, the cost, the weight, etc. For some things, like a "skillsaw" he concluded it made a lot more sense to just buy a cheap one and if it was shot at the end of the project then just go buy a new one. Lots less hassle then worrying about a helper breaking it, or someone stealing it, or the time and trouble of taking it somewhere for repair plus the better ones, at least at that time, weighed a lot more then the cheap ones and were more tiring to use. I'd definitely get the HF double swivel saw if it would serve the needs of my one or two times I might ever need it. Surely you'd know within the 30 day window if it's a dud and could take it back and buy a better one for 3 or 4 times the price.
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wrote:

If you're just slapping up framing you don't need an SCMS.

Nonsense. I know of no tradesman that buys HF circular saws. There *IS* a difference and time is money.

They might not buy a Festool, either, but I haven't seen any that didn't buy Makita, DeWalt, or similar.

Attempted goal post relocation noted.
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Using a hammer is less painful, though.
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Using a hammer on a hand is less painful? I'm not so sure about that.
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On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 04:34:18 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

Hitting it with the nail isn't fun either.
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On 3/1/2013 3:13 PM, Doug wrote:

Have to remember that the OP is "heybub". So given their posting history who knows what they are actually doing...
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Everything is comparable.

Tells me more about you being willing to compare things based on 1 parameter.

The question is, is the Bosch worth $437 more for homeowner use?
And there is a matter of convenience, speed of acquisition and return, availability of stock, and return policies.

How long since I last pointed out you don't think gud? -----
- gpsman
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On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 21:59:05 -0800 (PST), gpsman

Yep. AFAIK, Heybub won't be using the saw for production work. I bought a Craftsman 10" SCMS for $119 - on sale. Reg price was about $159.. Sears is always jacking around prices and "models." Close to this one http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10inch-single-bevel-sliding-compound-miter-saw/p-00921237000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1 Looks like the fence is different, and marked, and they added extensions to the bed. All useless to me. Mine has the laser too. I pooh-poohed that, but it's nice. Happened to be on sale when my wife pushed me to put up crown molding in 3 rooms. Worked fine. Accurate out of the box, no fine tuning necessary. With crown - or base/shoe - if you have 90 degree corners on the rooms, you don't need to bevel. It's all 45/90 miter adjustment. But I used bevel for new baseboard and it was accurate too. Only used bevel because the 10" was too small for the width of the work pieces. The motor would hit a standing work piece when sliding. Think the pieces were 4 1/2" or 5" A 12" saw would have made it easier, but I worked around it by reversing the saw adjustment and work pieces. So bigger would have been better for that job. But it was the 10" on sale and it worked. Since doing the house woodwork, I've only used the saw for chopping 2x4's. So should I have spent +5 bills for a saw? Don't think so. I don't know about the durability of these cheap SCMS saws, and don't care, since I don't make my living with them. But cutting accuracy on these only relies on a good slide, tight motor shaft bearings, stiff motor mount to the slides, good detents and solid adjustment gripping hardware. If they get that right, you're good to go. All that has lasted long enough for my purposes, so the "durability" was there. Beats the hell out of the "good" 12" Delta radial arm I had in terms of accurate cuts. If I ever use my cheap 10" SCMS for accurate work again, and find it's gone rogue on me, I'll just buy another cheap one.
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Did you miss, or just choose to ignore, the first part of that statement?
"If we compare no other specs..."
No decision should be made based on that one parameter, but the willingness of a company to provide a lengthy warranty should carry a lot of weight in the decision process.

As I pointed out to HeyBub, the issue is not with homeowner use vs. pro use, it's with the use of the word "comparable." See my response where I show 2 different definitions of "comparable" and how one fits and one doesn't. HeyBub expanded on his use of the word "comparable" and we are now on the same page.

...and quality of item and length of warranty.

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DerbyDad03 wrote:

You raise a couple of good, though rebuttable, points.
* Warranty. One can purchase an extended warranty at HF and still be way below the Bosch price.
* As for me, I'm an amateur and unwilling to pay professional prices for amateur projects.
If I go bowling once every six months, I'm happy to rent the shoes at the bowling alley for $3.00 instead of laying out $60.00 for my own personal pair.
I don't own a 22' truck so I'll be ready to move a bunch of stuff (if ever). Instead, I'll simply rent one from U-Haul when the need arises. I'm quite satisfied to own a $5.00 water shut-off key instead of a $200.00 motorized one.
Point is, a $100 tool allows me to do the same things, perhaps not as well, as a $600 model. The difference is not between a $100 and a $600 tool; the difference is between $100 tool and nothing.
I understand the motivations of those who want the best possible tool. But I'm not in that group. I have different needs and derive my satisfaction in a job differently. If any would rather do without a (sort-of) suitable tool, more power to them.
In passing, I'll note that if using an "inferior" tool results is something less than acceptable, I'll plant ivy.
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My objection wasn't related to an amateur's use of the saw vs. a pro's use. My objection was related to your use of the word "comparable".
If we go by definition #1 below, then your use of the word "comparable" is fine. Both the HF and Bosch are "similar." They are both 12" sliding miter saws.
However, if we go by definition #2, and bring "equivalent quality" into the discussion, then the word "comparable" doesn't fit.
I can only speak for myself, but when I see a statement like "save $510 over comparable Bosch 5312" I lean towards thinking the speaker is using definition number #2. Maybe that stems from my dislike of sleazy sales critters.
From that perspective, I don't see the 2 saws as "comparable".
com·pa·ra·ble
/ˈkämp(ə)rəbəl/
Adjective
1. Able to be likened to another; similar.
2. Of equivalent quality; worthy of comparison.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

OK, I see your point. My use of "comparable" was hyperbole - exaggeration for the purpose of emphasis. On the other hand, my intended use DOES rank the two saws as "comparable." They both chop 2x4s, they both (probably) make 90d cuts. They both look pretty.
Good enough for me. I should have made that point more clear.
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