I just ran a bat out of my house

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Terry wrote:
[..]

Please do phone prior to arrival; I will have coffee and Limburgse vlaai waiting for you.

I hardly see a reason for that.
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The US Department for Health and Social Services operates the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), which has a very interesting article on bats and rabies:
http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/bats.html
Here are two short quotes:
"Most of the recent human rabies cases in the United States have been caused by rabies virus from bats."
"... any bat that is active by day, is found in a place where bats are not usually seen (for example, in a room in your home or on the lawn), or is unable to fly, is far more likely than others to be rabid."
Of course it is your pets that should have up to date rabies shots...
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Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com
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Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

OK, far more likely (I would not argue your CDC). But how much more likely exactly? It does not say.
I do admit, after a bit of reading (wikipedia and such), that perhaps bats in the Americas (and a few other regions) are indeed "more likely" to have (and transmit) rabies. Compared to other regions, that is.

Rabies kills people, too.
The CDC article seems very well balanced. At least it says that not all bats have rabies and the method they describe to catch bats in your house is quite humane.
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You've totally missed the point. There is nothing there comparing regions. It just says, without equivocation, that bats are a *very* *common* vector for human rabies. In the US it happens to be the most common (for a reason, as explained below).
If you do even more research what you'll find is that bats are one of the several types of animals in which rabies is very commonly endemic. That means in any given population it is always present (and is not necessarily always fatal for every animal which has it).

Pre-exposure human rabies vaccination is not routine. On the other hand, for people like a veterinarian or a researcher working with bats, they would in fact get a pre-exposure vaccination.
Regardless of that, around the world 99% of human rabies cases are the result of contact with rabid dogs. That is not true in the US because a dogs commonly receive a rabies vaccine...

I cited that particular article for good reason.

They recommend that bats caught in your home be tested for rabies. The bat does not survive that test...
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Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com
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On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 17:25:03 -0900, snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:

why sharks are going to have to learn how to walk before I get bit.
I am giving the bat one extra chance.
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Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Not in the article you quoted but here, for example:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies#Rabies_and_bats>

This may all be true but there is still no answer: how many (in a hundred) animals *will* have the virus, in other words, how much risk does one little bat really pose to you if you know nothing about it?
It can be a very common infection for bats, and still be quite rare.

I don't remember vaccination but it was like 20 years ago, in Belgium. I wasn't the researcher, but a sort of batcatcher. With a big scoop net ;)

They recommend this if you think you may have been bitten. Otherwise, it says: "If you see a bat in your home and you are sure no human or pet exposure has occurred, confine the bat to a room by closing all doors and windows leading out of the room except those to the outside. The bat will probably leave soon. If not, it can be caught, as described, and released outdoors away from people and pets."
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Which is made insignificant by the simple fact that, rare or not, if you catch it... you die. *EVERY TIME*.

Twenty years ago they may not have had a suitable vaccination.

How sure can you be though? One story I read was of a young girl that woke up to find a bat in her bedroom, and while she didn't think she had been bitten, she was examined throughly anyway. They found no indication that she had been bitten.
She died of rabies.
(The bat had been killed and tossed outside. They actually found the carcass, and it tested positive.)
Taking risks with rabies is like playing Russian Roulette.

Incidentally, my perspective on this is from living in an area where we have rabies quarantines almost every spring. The disease is endemic in Arctic foxes, which like bats start showing up in places they should not be and acting in ways that are not normal. I don't know what the percentages are with bats, but with foxes they are virtually *all* rabid if they exhibit those characteristics.
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Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com
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Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

If a train at full speed hits you head on, you die. Every time. And it does happen. But I'm still not afraid of trains, like I am not afraid of bats, either.

I think they did, but I know we (the research party) never took things too seriously. But we all survived somehow...

"One story I read" is still just one story you read.
A story I read told of a man who put a rabid bat in his beer before he drank it, and then died. I read it here: <http://www.batcon.org/home/index.asp?idPageQ&idSubPageF
(it's a good article, quite like your CDC article)

Russian roulette is one bullet in six or seven chambers. We are talking about, what, a thousand chambers here?
Ten thousand? We still don't know.

Let's find out the percentages. Through Google, I could not get at them either.
Yes, I don't think that in my country rabies is that widespread even among wild animals. So our "disagreement" (do we have one?) may still be due to geographical factors.
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Technically, I believe the original "Russian roulette" is fictional or hear-say - I think it's conditions in an army bar near the front in _War and Peace_ or something - and a single chamber in the revolver is /not/ loaded. If you hit that one chamber, you lose. You have to go on living.
The official recommendation seems to be, if the bat that you handled has flown away then let it worry about itself, but you, get the damn vaccination. It's a couple of bucks, I assume. And if you don't get it, then stay the hell away from me, till, let's say June. Will that be about right?
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A rabies vaccination series might cost $1500-2000.
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Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com
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On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:14:12 -0900, snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:

A simple cremation of your remains will cost more than that.
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On 18 Feb, 14:14, snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:

For real? Man. Okay, go bite a cop or something. I bet you get it for free. There may be drawbacks, however.
(Google) http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/08/23/rabies.shots.ap / from 2000, refers to getting $1500 worth of shots at the 2000 price if bitten, and a study where 40 per cent of patients getting the shots didn't need them, presumably having been not bitten by a rabid animal. Often having been bitten by an animal of undetermined condition, I suppose.
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The significance of the price tag seems to be flying over a few heads...
Pre-exposure immunization, due to the cost, is not practical for the general population. People with a very high potential for exposure, however, certainly should get a vaccination. That includes, for example, veterinarians and others who normally work with animals that have a high incidence (bat researchers being an example).
Otherwise, only post-exposure vaccination is likely to be considered reasonable by most people. My position all along has been that if there is even the slightest possibility, vaccination is the only sensible route.
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Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com
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Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Pre exposure vaccination still requires post-exposure vaccination if exposure occurs. Those who have had pre-exposure vaccination require fewer doses post exposure (usually two or three).
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Dave


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Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Pre exposure vaccination still requires post-exposure vaccination if exposure occurs. Those who have had pre-exposure vaccination require fewer doses post exposure (usually two or three).
--
Dave


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Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Pre exposure vaccination still requires post-exposure vaccination if exposure occurs. Those who have had pre-exposure vaccination require fewer doses post exposure (usually two or three).
--
Dave


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Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Pre exposure vaccination still requires post-exposure vaccination if exposure occurs. Those who have had pre-exposure vaccination require fewer doses post exposure (usually two or three).
--
Dave


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On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:11:16 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie

You don't have to be bitten to contract rabies.
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On 18 Feb, 16:29, snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

Further reading on bats supports this... So I wonder how they determined whether subjects had or had not needed the shots. I suppose it can only be on whether or not the animal had rabies in fact? Which the ER didn't know, and, I am going to say, couldn't reasonably determine for sure?
Huh. A lot of research is pretty poor...
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Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

I remember Snoopy in the cartoons grimacing and clutching at his "arm" after the shot... Back to _House, M.D._, this is one where ol' Greg's magic did not work (homeless woman; cardboard shelter full of bats; this they figured out later). Dr Foreman found the bats and got the shots, I think. Patient died.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-24-girl-survives-rabies_x.htm asserts that (in Wisconsin) you "should seek treatment after any possible contact with a bat or a bite from any other wild animal. Symptoms of the disease usually do not appear until about a month after exposure, and by then it is too late to get the vaccine." /Any/ posible contact with a bat? Ri-ight.
Some people handle bats for fun or as a job, and presumably they, like garbage workers, get the shots first, appropriate to each situation.
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